Thread: Front suspension

Thanks Ben

So they are a Firestone product

I would probably not go as sexy as you guys with in car dial up pressures etc to ; lift when off road , lower for road going and lower max for access or loading. Not that I don't think it's a great idea, it's just a $ and technical know how prob for me

I'd probably try some sort of common line and one way valves with a bleed at each one so I could use the tyre compressor to lift when off road.

Do you take a spare coil spring just in case one lets go on a trip or a spare bag?

Pete

Sorry , also meant to ask , did you flick the Boge Hydromat thingy?

Originally Posted by land864

Thanks Ben

So they are a Firestone product

I would probably not go as sexy as you guys with in car dial up pressures etc to ; lift when off road , lower for road going and lower max for access or loading. Not that I don't think it's a great idea, it's just a $ and technical know how prob for me

I'd probably try some sort of common line and one way valves with a bleed at each one so I could use the tyre compressor to lift when off road.

Do you take a spare coil spring just in case one lets go on a trip or a spare bag?

Pete

Hi Pete,

Yes I flicked the boge when it fell apart/broke. I ran with soft coils and no boge for quite a while.

Yes they are firestone. Cost about $350 landed, and the rest of the parts I had lying around (except a couple of adaptors and the brackets).

I don't have a fancy setup - that is rovercare and others. I have one air valve under each wheel arch at present. Later I will move them in-cab - which will cost about $20 for extra air line. My setup is a bit crude but it is simple and reliable and I am happy. The only time it annoys me is if I load or unload the vehicle, then I have to stop a few times and adjust it before I get the setting right again (moving the valves in-cab can fix this).

NOTE: you cannot use a common valve/line for two valves on the same axle. You will probably get dangerous body roll, as all the air will try and go to the outer bag every time you go round a corner. Someone (Paul?) experimented with cross-linked bags on a P38A for low range offroad use only, but I think even then he found it dangerous.

Originally Posted by isuzutoo-eh

So bloody confused about suspension Part 1!
Yep I've done plenty of searching and reading threads, here, on pirate, outerlimits, pomme forums, google and even 4wdinaction. All that research means I am certain of my confusion.

Alright. Problem: my County is as stiff as a...cadaver. On an articulation ramp, a go-kart would do better.
It is currently fitted with Dobinson Springs by the previous owner, with the Dobinson office's kind help I believe they are C51-022 at the front (I think), and C51-019 at the rear (definately). These springs result in 40 to 45mm extra height. The shocks are also Dobinson which have (front) 330-550mm and (rear) 357-560mm closed/open specs-i.e. near enough same as factory. Shock mounts are unaltered.
The Dobinson catalogue is here: http://www.dobinsonsprings.com/pdf/LAND-53.pdf
So already the down travel is effectively reduced as the shocks are standard length and the ride height has taken nearly 2" of shock extension over standard. The vehicle also bounces around on the road as the springs are too stiff.
Note: the suspension set up is <2 years and <12,000km old. Shocks are not tired.

I rarely carry much in the way of loads-unloaded 90% of the time and the other 10% isn't more than 250kg. I want more flex. I want a softer ride. I don't really want lifted suspension so am endeavouring to get it back to standard height.

The main thing I am confused about is the front suspension. Mine's an Isuzu powered County One Ten. Fair bit of weight up the front.

I have seen reference that these Counties had part number HYG4176 front springs standard (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-...-shocks-2.html) but this number does not come up on any LR parts websites.
Most places mention they were HD springs, I assume this is the NRC9448/NRC9449 D110HD & D130 front springs, as seen on this site: land rover spring specifications
Which one is it? If it's HYG4176 what are the specs of that spring?

Wovenrovings and others reckon the Isuzu Counties had an extra inch over the rest of the world's production: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130...ml#post1097792
Is this right?

Does that mean the Dobinsons and other Isuzu specced aftermarket springs are x" lifted above the 1" Isuzu lift so x+1" taller than a stock standard Defender?


Is there a rule of thumb to use when upping spring rate (and free length?) when catering for accessories (winch, bar)?

I can't help with specifications but can direct you to the bloke that helped me solve an identical problem on my 1985 car- same as yours.
I started off with Heavy Dobinsons in the rear- with PolyBags. No matter what I did, the car felt too firm (read 'back breaker'). So replaced the rear spings with Bearmach standard from the bloke 'GaryCLR' in the blue mountains west of Sydney. He said (looking at the books and listings both aftermarket and factory) that the rear springs are the same as with normal county V8 but fronts are heavier. He also noted that springs come in Left and Right- a bias of some description and sure enough, the indicator paint on each rear spring designates this.

I use Koni Heavy Track shocks on all corners. I have a good ride (better than many of those expensive jap things) _when_ I have a full tank of fuel, and when I adjust the air pressure on the rear bags 12psi- for some reason this needs to be done otherwise it goes stiff- I know this doesn't make sense but loss of 1psi can make a lot of difference. There's a slow leak but it's miniscule.

Lastly, I run 255/85/16 tyres (33) on alloy rims- this kinda helps with reducing unsprung weight. Feedback from others who have driven this car is positive, corners in a fairly neutral manner, feels firm but not hard etc. The car looks like it has a 2inch lift kit but it doesn't.

Dunno if any of this helps.

Hi Svengali0,
Thanks for your input. GaryCLR has sold me a good few things over the years now
You are correct, the Counties as standard did have very soft rear springs, as the load leveller kept the body level when a heavy load was added. They are 180lb/inch rate, the specs are on one of the websites I linked to. Defenders had nearly 100lb/inch higher rated rear springs, and most aftermerket springs are higher still for 110s. The low spring rate is what gave the early coil sprung Landies and the Range Rover the famous cushy ride. Far better than any Jap 4wd's ride!
You are also right about the front springs being heavier rated for the Isuzu engine, but by how much is what I would like to know. I will be talking to a friend who works for LRA on the military parts supply end to see what he can come up with for specs/parts

Good info on the shocks, Koni get a good wrap. Do you have the closed and open lengths off-hand?
One thing that Les Richmond Automotive say on their Coil Springs web page is this:

Springs are not used in Land Rovers as a handling component but more for load carrying and height adjustment.

Which shows just how important shock damping is.



If anyone is flicking a working Boge unit in the rubbish, send it to me please!

Thanks Ben

$ 350 ea or for 4?

Thought about the danger factor with common line just after I posted

Is it possible to somehow utilse a P38 suspension controller?

As I will probs get someone to fit it anyone know of a good shop over her in Vic.

I thought I ahd heard that Penins Rang had done a few?

Originally Posted by land864

Thanks Ben

$ 350 ea or for 4?

Thought about the danger factor with common line just after I posted

Is it possible to somehow utilse a P38 suspension controller?

As I will probs get someone to fit it anyone know of a good shop over her in Vic.

$350 for the 2 rears. I only have rear air springs.

I'm sure a P38A setup would be possible, however no idea how easy/hard it would be.

Ask Rovercare nicely... However there would be a fair bit of labour if you were paying someone.

What is the front axle weight on a 110 county?

The comfort comes down to spring rate, dampers and a little bit of geometry (i.e. lifted or not).
Ride height can be doctored within limits, flipping your spring hats, installing spacers etc.

I run 180 lb/in springs that are 430mm long in my rangie, front axle weight is around 1150kg. Shocks are koni gas for the 80 series landcruiser and the ride is excellent. Articulation is limited by the radius arms and is never going to be stunning unless you run very hard rear springs to make it work more.

I run about 170mm of sag in the front springs at ride height, this leaves me only 50mm off the big soft bottomout bumpers which have another 30mm or so compression in them.