Thread: What $ for a good 110 Factory 4BD1T

The New Cummins ISB 3.8 (can get with SAE3 pattern) would be a great motor swap. It is common rail, powerful and 50kg lighter than the 4bd1T. Downside is that is $13000.

My uncle rebuilds diesel engines for living, from 3cyl komatsus to v16 detriots. He quoted me $5500 to fully rebuild a 4bd1T (assembly for free), if your after a new or rebuild 4bd1t i would expect to pay about 7500 to 11000.

Why so much to fully rebuild one?

Piston/liner/ring sets are quite cheap and require no machining. Cranks if nitrided (like all the turbo ones are) are bulletproof and never need ground.

Here's the rough cost of my last rebuild.
4x liners - cost me 4 dozen beer but retail for $80 each.
4x pistons - cost around $300
Crank bearings - $150 including thrusts
Isuzu complete gasket/seal kit - $350 (suspect I got a great deal here)
Valve seals and guides $100
Head tanked and guides/seals fitted $80

Total around $NZ1300 in parts. Excluding IP and turbo of course, but the turbo (tb25) is also dirt cheap to rebuild and IP's are very reliable.

Originally Posted by land864

Before I launch proper into the build up of my 4BD1 Isuzu ,
Pete

I don't think launch is the word

Hate to tell you, but to rebuild a 110 to a high standard is going to cost you big bucks, just suck it up, spend the money and build what you wan't, that way you won't regret the...."oh I wish I spent the extra on that"

I'm not sure it sounds as though you ready for this sort of build, it seems by all the threads that way

Originally Posted by rovercare

I don't think launch is the word

Hate to tell you, but to rebuild a 110 to a high standard is going to cost you big bucks, just suck it up, spend the money and build what you wan't, that way you won't regret the...."oh I wish I spent the extra on that"

I'm not sure it sounds as though you ready for this sort of build, it seems by all the threads that way

Curiously, I have noticed that people who rebuild and modify their cars tend to sell them on after a relatively short period. Years ago in a previous life I owned and ran a european wrecking yard in brisbane. Came across more than my fair share of rebuilders, people after various parts and doing all sorts of modifications. Some of them willing to spend large dollars to get what they want. Mostly, it was not clear to me why they did this. There were times that it did make sense. At the end of the day, I reckon it's an emotional decision.
On this forum, I sometimes get the impression that people hate being passed by some Nissan or Toyota common rail lifted **** mobile contraption and have a strong need to balance this in some way.
Personally, I have had a 'factory' turbo isuzu Landrover and two non turbo's and I do recognise that non turbos are a bit of a slug at times- towing deficits, and long stretches of hill, longer sand dunes etc.
Generally though, I am very happy with the 750km+ per tank mileage I get from my car- factory original except the wheels and tyres (33 inch and alloys).
So a build is a relative term. Spending money on gearboxes and drive lines, repairs and such- this makes sense. Thinking that you want a 110 or 120 and it 'must' be a factory turbo is all good too- but thinking around relatively large amounts of dollars to get or 'make the car that you want' (for example, massive huge torque figures and prime-******* rights) is normally an emotional decision and often enough, reality intervenes at a later time and thoughts of selling arise (which makes sense given investment) but a bit of forethought and the odd reality check can make wonders for the bank balance. Nothing wrong with emotional decisions and hobbies- it's just the question that might be asked: Are you driving a Land Rover (and who would drive these things unless they had some love for it's abilities off road irrespective of inflated horse power and torque) or are you after some other sort of cachet (eg bragging rights, competing with all those troves of plastic nissans and toyotas, 'Great Wall' and you beaut Hyundais, soft road tripple over head cam supercharged windcsreen wiper Subaru's and delicate pretty BMW's and Range Rovers with pollen filtered cabins etc) etc.
Just a thought.

Geez , some heavy stuff there but to summarise the answers

1. I am happy to sink about $10-$15k into it because I would have bought a newish 4WD and lost that in depreciation. For a car we use only 12 or so times to 4WD in , as a 1985 I can Club Permit reg it for $70/ year for 90 separate days use.
2. The reason I drive Land Rovers is because of there character and just because I like to.
3. The turbo idea was merely to get some better performance and just for that reason.After driving it round this weekend I don't know that I'd bother. With the d-gas it goes pretty well.
4. I guess I am also just trying to be opportunistic and buy someone elses project that they have spent way too much time and money on.
5. We're probably going to hang on to it for at least 4 years and maybe longer.

Pete

Originally Posted by Dougal

Why so much to fully rebuild one?

Piston/liner/ring sets are quite cheap and require no machining. Cranks if nitrided (like all the turbo ones are) are bulletproof and never need ground.

Here's the rough cost of my last rebuild.
4x liners - cost me 4 dozen beer but retail for $80 each.
4x pistons - cost around $300
Crank bearings - $150 including thrusts
Isuzu complete gasket/seal kit - $350 (suspect I got a great deal here)
Valve seals and guides $100
Head tanked and guides/seals fitted $80

Total around $NZ1300 in parts. Excluding IP and turbo of course, but the turbo (tb25) is also dirt cheap to rebuild and IP's are very reliable.

The rebuild included pump injectors, my uncle checks all tollerances. He said they always require machining. There is a lot of machining, filing and grinding to make sure all tollerances are spot on. For example, the block requires machining to make sure the new liners fit perfect, the liners then need to be machined to deck, deck needs to be checked along with head. Rings need to be check and filed to suit each piston and bore. Crank re-balanced. New valve stems, springs and seats, machine new valves to match each seat. New head bolts as they are always stretched. Pressure test head.... list goes on.
BIG lesson i have learn't from racing cars is don't cut corners if you want a reliable outcome.

That's a whole lot of completely un-necessary work that has the potential to ruin your block.

The block does not require machining, the chromard liners come in four different grades to suit.
The liners do not need machined to deck height. Do this and you will lose crush on the fire-rings and possibly create head-gasket leaks.
Factory ring gaps are good to go, filing would only make the gaps bigger and give more blowby. Turbo diesel ring gaps are larger than petrol engines and you need to use genuine Isuzu rings. Most aftermarket rings don't play nicely with the chromard liners.
These head bolts are not TTY, they can be reused without any problems.
Valve seat machining is pretty cheap.

The biggest thing I've found on these engines is Isuzu did it better than any engine builder I've come across.
This is a high boost diesel engine, petrol racing engine building techniques can cause big problems.

They do however benefit from crank and rod balancing. Well mine did, there was 27g difference in con-rod weights.

The more people spend on ******* up their cars the more my stock-standard beauty increases in value.