Thread: 120 Isuzu Ute

greatest sources of backlash for a R380 gearbox defender were axle to wheel flange and output shaft to input gear in gearbox to transfer case.

Originally Posted by land864

Hey Bojan

What are the most common causes and easy fixes for driveline backlash?

For the 120 (and 110) there are two fundamentally different sources of this - real play in the power train, and play in the axle location bits.

In the power train, there are a lot of possibilities, as there are a lot of splined joints (e.g. in the gearbox, clutch, transfer case, differentials, axles etc. However, usually, these contribute little free play. In these vehicles, free play is usually either in universal joints on the prop shafts, which should be fixed as soon as detected,since any play in these represents incipient failure, or end float on the gears in differentials, usually (but not always) the center diff. This is unlikely to lead to failure except in extreme cases. There are other less likely possibilities, including CV joints, loose pinion bearings and end play on the intermediate gears in the transfer case.

For Later Defenders with the R380 gearbox, poor lubrication often leads to wear on the spline coupling the transfer case input gear to the gearbox output shaft. Replacement parts should be drilled to improve lubrication if this is not already done. Late Defenders with grease lubricated wheel bearings are likely to wear the rear drive flange and axles splines.

In the axle location bits, there should be no free play at all. Most likely places are the rear bushes on the lower link, and the ball joint on top of the axle at the rear, and the radius arm bushes onto the axle at the front. But wear on any of the other suspension bushes can also result in free play. A click when going from drive to overrun will be either the big nut on the front of the rear lower link loose, or, if more a clunk, the ball joint.

It should be noted that a dragging handbrake will exacerbate any free play, and I would suggest the first step in dealing with free play, after checking the U-joints, would be to make sure this is not dragging. If it is, it probably has oil on it.

Hope this helps,

John

So, at the risk of bidding up the price...

My partner Jane and I test drove the 120 ute yesterday. It drives really well - very tight steering / suspension / gearbox / drive train (better than our '97 Tdi Disco actually) and engine is very strong (though, as expected, it is all torque and no power). Some rust in footwells - to the point of a fifty cent sized hole on driver's side- and a small amount in the firewall but the chassis seems rust free. Has a PAS leak and a minor engine oil leak - looks to be either sump or oil filter housing. Needs a new indicator stalk I think - blinkers were a bit dodgy - and driver's door only opened from outside.

NVH is as awful as we expected, although my hearing is back to normal this morning. Ergonomics are great for hunchbacked dwarves (and who would have thought there was so large a market for such people that LR could build these things unchanged for decades?), probably bearable for the rest of us. Brakes weren't great but think that is by design not neglect. Driving home to Canberra afterward in the Disco felt like a trip in a Merc S-Class.

Overall, we were impressed and really loved the Land Rover quirky-ness of it. The off idle torque is fun and made me imagine what it would like with a turbo. Mechanically, it felt really solid. Body-wise, I guess I'd describe it as good for its age; basically sound but a bit worn around the edges.

We're sure we could live it with a bit more sound insulation and perhaps better seats (thinking something like Disco ones would be more comfortable even if you still can't tilt them much off 90 degrees). The only question is one of value for money. From the way the seller is talking, and recent activity on it's eBay listing, I'm expecting it will exceed $10K. Add the repairs and a couple of creature comforts like seats and insulation and I wonder whether a '97 Defender / 270K km / service history for $12k makes more sense. I really like the Isuzu engine but how much is it worth against a 300Tdi.. Sure, the Tdi isn't as bulletproof but with the right maintenance I don't think it gives too much up to the 4db1 in reliability & longevity. Besides, even if the 300tdi were a box of mechanical horrors, it's a box I'm fairly familiar with after 3 years of Disco ownership .

Sorry for the long post. If the 120 ute had been just a bit better or a bit worse, it would have either confirmed it as the right choice or returned me to my original thoughts of a Tdi. As it stands now though I'm really confused . Any thoughts?

Thanks
Simon

Thanks for the review, I've been looking at it as well but I'm not quite ready to buy one yet. It is the first 120 that I have seen for sale in the last six months or so and that may drive the price up a bit over the $8K that I reckon it's worth. Plusses are the work that has been done on it and it has the advantage of a bigger tray over a 110 but like you say a 300TDI starts to get attractive at a couple of thousand more.
Spend a bit more again and at $17500 you could have a TD5 130 single cab http://www.justauto.com.au/just4x4s/...tem_position=6

Just to confuse the issue further.........

Regards,
Tote

Originally Posted by eeyore

. As it stands now though I'm really confused . Any thoughts?

Thanks
Simon

Go and have a look at some TDI's and see what you think.

10k I'm currently fixing one up thats a lot newer with about half the kms I figured it was going to cost me slightly more than it would to buy one (I'll spend more than its worth) but if 10K is the going rate I'll be slightly ahead! Maybe wait for the ADF to start unloading theirs.

Originally Posted by Nero

Go and have a look at some TDI's and see what you think.

10k I'm currently fixing one up thats a lot newer with about half the kms I figured it was going to cost me slightly more than it would to buy one (I'll spend more than its worth) but if 10K is the going rate I'll be slightly ahead! Maybe wait for the ADF to start unloading theirs.

I was thinking the same - makes my maxied 120 sound like a bargain.

Originally Posted by eeyore

So, at the risk of bidding up the price...

My partner Jane and I test drove the 120 ute yesterday. It drives really well - very tight steering / suspension / gearbox / drive train (better than our '97 Tdi Disco actually) and engine is very strong (though, as expected, it is all torque and no power). Some rust in footwells - to the point of a fifty cent sized hole on driver's side- and a small amount in the firewall but the chassis seems rust free. Has a PAS leak and a minor engine oil leak - looks to be either sump or oil filter housing. Needs a new indicator stalk I think - blinkers were a bit dodgy - and driver's door only opened from outside.

NVH is as awful as we expected, although my hearing is back to normal this morning. Ergonomics are great for hunchbacked dwarves (and who would have thought there was so large a market for such people that LR could build these things unchanged for decades?), probably bearable for the rest of us. Brakes weren't great but think that is by design not neglect. Driving home to Canberra afterward in the Disco felt like a trip in a Merc S-Class.

Overall, we were impressed and really loved the Land Rover quirky-ness of it. The off idle torque is fun and made me imagine what it would like with a turbo. Mechanically, it felt really solid. Body-wise, I guess I'd describe it as good for its age; basically sound but a bit worn around the edges.

We're sure we could live it with a bit more sound insulation and perhaps better seats (thinking something like Disco ones would be more comfortable even if you still can't tilt them much off 90 degrees). The only question is one of value for money. From the way the seller is talking, and recent activity on it's eBay listing, I'm expecting it will exceed $10K. Add the repairs and a couple of creature comforts like seats and insulation and I wonder whether a '97 Defender / 270K km / service history for $12k makes more sense. I really like the Isuzu engine but how much is it worth against a 300Tdi.. Sure, the Tdi isn't as bulletproof but with the right maintenance I don't think it gives too much up to the 4db1 in reliability & longevity. Besides, even if the 300tdi were a box of mechanical horrors, it's a box I'm fairly familiar with after 3 years of Disco ownership .

Sorry for the long post. If the 120 ute had been just a bit better or a bit worse, it would have either confirmed it as the right choice or returned me to my original thoughts of a Tdi. As it stands now though I'm really confused . Any thoughts?

Thanks
Simon

120's seem to command a higher price due to rarity. There was a 110 wagon which was passed in on ebay for $6100 a few days ago - which IMHO is about what it was worth. A wagon would be easy to convert to a ute. Then you can build an extended cab into the bargain - to solve the legroom problem.

FWIW - my 110 was significantly better in NVH than Offender90's 120. Admittedly, some of that was the LT95 in his.

270k Tdi vs 400k 3.9 - I know which will last longer...

Yes, I saw a link to that 110 wagon. I've seen a few Isuzu 110s listed at around $10K, although like this one, I don't know if they're selling at that price. The fact that there's a few around has to help lower the price a bit though surely.

I like that idea of the converting to an extended cab ute. As well as solving the legroom issue, it could also mean a 'tub' style back which I find way more stylish than the tray top arrangement. Actually, forget that; just remember the whole point of getting a ute is for a traytop camper. Doh! Anyway, much as I would enjoy the project, I just don't have the work space to undertake such a big job. Besides, the main reason my partner is keen on a ute / camper is the desire for more camping and less weekends at home while I fiddle about with Disco's camping fitout. It's almost worth suggesting it just to see the look on her face when I start describing how I'm just to whip the back off the County and then...