Isuzu MSA Gearbox to LT230

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Originally Posted by rijidij

Those starters are massive. The starter that came with my truck engine is the geared type. As you can see it's much smaller and lighter, but I'm not sure what angle it sits at and wether it has any clearance issues. At a glance, the solenoid sits in about the same position on both, so it appears there wouldn't be any problem.

Cheers, Murray

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Murray, All the geared types I have found so far, although they are much smaller, bulge out too far to clear the chassis. If you could get a picture of it mounted in the flywheel housing I could probably tell you if it will fit or not.

The starters are massive indeed - they crank the 4BD1 with such ease....

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Originally Posted by Dougal

I have seen this same starter used on 12V Isuzu 4BC1 engines. It's huge due to it having no gear reduction.

My setup uses this 12v starter, but with 24v applied. I have no idea why they did this, because it pulls over 500A if conditions are unfavourable.

There is a 12v 6BD1/6BG1 starter, but I'm quite sure this isn't it.

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There is also a 12V 4BA1 2 Bolt Starter Motor that is massive like the 4BD1 as in Rijidijs' picture.... thought I had struck gold when I found it.... all bolts up to the same flywheel housing but has a smaller pinion gear that doesn't engage in the ring gear so cannot be used. :(

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Originally Posted by rijidij

How can I tell which box I have ? Mine came from an '88 NPR59. The engine is a 1990 built block and the gearbox was rebuilt recently before I bought the truck, as was the engine at the same time. I'm pretty sure the engine was a change over short engine, so I'm not sure if the gearbox is the original or also a change over. It also has an overdrive unit on the back of the box which would obviously have to be removed to use it in a Landy. Here's some pics anyway...........

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Most of the boxes have either a label or a stamping in the location circled in this picture stating 'MSA-5?' ;

Attachment 30776

Otherwise it is count 1st and 3rd gear ratios the old fashioned way.


While you are there, how long is the overdrive unit?

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Originally Posted by the_grubb

Murray, All the geared types I have found so far, although they are much smaller, bulge out too far to clear the chassis. If you could get a picture of it mounted in the flywheel housing I could probably tell you if it will fit or not.

The starters are massive indeed - they crank the 4BD1 with such ease....

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Originally Posted by the_grubb

Most of the boxes have either a label or a stamping in the location circled in this picture stating 'MSA-5?' ;

Attachment 30776

Otherwise it is count 1st and 3rd gear ratios the old fashioned way.


While you are there, how long is the overdrive unit?

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Thanks. My gearbox is underneath a heap of other parts at the moment. As soon as I get a chance I'll get it out and have a better look at things, and measure the overdrive unit.

Murray

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Originally Posted by the_grubb

Murray, All the geared types I have found so far, although they are much smaller, bulge out too far to clear the chassis. If you could get a picture of it mounted in the flywheel housing I could probably tell you if it will fit or not.

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After fitting the small starter to the flywheel housing today, I can see what you mean about it bulging out to the side………..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1499.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1500.jpg

Just for interest I removed the studs so I could spin the starter around a bit. It might be possible to do a bit of modification to the housing so the studs are in a different position. It could be done in a way so the studs could be moved back to the original position to allow the use of either type of starter.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1501.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1502.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1503.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1504.jpg

The small starter would be no further out than the side of the flywheel housing if it was spun around a bit.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1505.jpg

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Originally Posted by the_grubb

While you are there, how long is the overdrive unit?

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The overdrive unit is approximately 250mm between the mating surfaces for the gearbox and the hand brake backing plate.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1479.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Would you make the adapter without the selector mechanism?

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Originally Posted by the_grubb

Of course. I have a complete cable shift here from an NPR truck which would be perfect for your application given the distance between driver and gearbox.

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Dianna,
I just thought I'd post a pic of the cable shifter setup.
As The Grubb suggested, it would probably be a good option for a forward control situation as it's a fairly short, compact shifter and could be mounted pretty much anywhere as long as the cables have room to run out underneath it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1498.jpg

With the smaller starter, it looks like it might be do-able to just weld some extra lugs on the side of the starter flange. As long as you could position it so the lugs/holes were clear of the support webs and the solenoid it should be fine.

Only downside I can see is that you have a non-standard starter so if it dies somewhere you cant just bolt on another one (although you could put new internals in the modified housing).

Upside is that the mod could easily be done on the bench (compared to machining/mods to the flywheel housing).

Steve

I did just that with my smaller (12v) starter motor. The engine is a cinch to start and there's very little load on the smaller starter. The photos show a 4BD1-T with truck bellhousing (2 bolt starter) with MXA box fitted to a '91 Disco chassis. There's at least 10mm clearance from the rail and when drilling the housing and welding two studs to rotate the starter, I just took my time to minimise the heat 'pulling' the stud off centre.

Anyway, it sure beat notching the chassis....

Matt.

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Originally Posted by rijidij

Can someone supply a basic explanation or diagram of how the wiring is set up to run a 24v starter with 12v everything else. I'm just curious at this stage, but I'm sure other's will need to know if doing the conversion.

Cheers, Murray

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There are many ways to skin a cat... but this is probably the simplest. Using both a 24V Starter Motor and 24V Alternator.

Attachment 30820

Basically just using a 12V activated relay that switches through 24V to your starter solenoid.

Mine is different to this as I still have a 12V alternator at this stage.