Muscle In Disguise, 1967 Holden HR 186S 4-Speed

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Originally Posted by disco man

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It was a 'special' Special sedan,with mention made of the noise level."The exhaust arrangments of the 186S differ from the X2.Twin headers of somewhat different design are retained,but the crisp muffler of the X2 has been replaced by one whose note will not offend anyone."
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And how disappointing it was. While the HD X2 had a nice crackle the 186S was nothing special. How good would it have been to have both the X2 note and the 4-speed box.

My father was a Holden dealer at the time. On one occasion I had to deliver a HD X2 from the factory to his country dealership. The customer had specified Pirelli Cinturatos so half way along the trip I had to call in at a tyre place and have the standard cross-plies replaced. Well, what a difference! The thing actually went around corners on my chosen line and the steering feel was transformed! From that day on I was a radial-tyre convert and would never have cross-plies again (until I later bought a GTS327 Monaro with Dunlop Sovereigns that I couldn't wear out quickly enough).

Stephen.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

And of course then there's handling,...I've never heard anyone say that a VE Valiant handled well, quite simply, because it didn't. It was the worst of the three.

In your Opinion :) Remember you are comparing Holden sports models with Valiant family cars.

Look, if you're a Chrysler man, We ain't never gonna agree, but I'm probably older than you, I was driving these cars at the time.

Maybe but I also drove the AP6, the VC, VE and VF at the time as well as some Holdens and Falcons. The Valiant did not feel as nimble but felt more solid and safer - a better quality vehicle.

Most of the guys had Holdens, because they were Holdens I suppose, and there was HEAPS of stuff to make 'em go quicker......because there was a demand it.

Holdens were cheap and nasty where the Valiants were more expensive. The Holdens needed heaps of stuff to make them go quicker and to get to respectable performance where the Valiants already had it built in

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Yep - I agree - I think we agree to disgree.:D

That's the best way, I ain't particularly a Ford or Holden man, & as far as my favourite car of all time, well it's actually a Mopar, Dodge Challenger 426 Hemi R/T, so whilst I don't agree with everything you say on the Valiant, maybe We have some common ground here?
Pickles

In 67 I fitted a brand new 289 to a 80" series one I was building up .Mum had a valiant at the time and my work ute was a FC with 186 triple SUs and Jag 4 speed box.In a straight line the LR was quicker .We wont discuss the twisty bits:D

AM

There was lots of speed equipment available for the Slant Six and there were quite a few very fast ones around Brisbane. The Chrysler factory team in the USA, Ramchargers, successfully drag raced them.

In the early sixties I took a break from fitting and turning and worked for a while for a syndicate of Brisbane used car dealers who bought at auction in Sydney. Cars were far cheaper there than in Brisbane and it was well worth while to buy there. We used to fly drivers down on Saturday morning and put them in a car at Burwood to deliver to a yard in Brisbane. We had a bench mark of 12 hours for the drive, crook roads, drum brakes, skinny cross ply retreads and all on well worn cars. New boys would grab a V8 or other big car. More fool them. They were paying for the fuel out of their twenty-five quid. I worked out that the best compromise was a Valiant Six. Not bad on fuel, and the AP5, AP6, VC were quite fast point to point cars. Soft, long travel suspension both ends works as well as stiff sports suspension. Vals were comfortable to drive fast. The best time I did in one was 10 1/2hours in an AP5 at a time when there was little heavy traffic either end. Best time ever was 8 3/4 hours in a 327 Camaro (drum brakes!!!!!!).

Not long after I accepted a job as a fleet manager with a sales organisation that had around seventy cars for reps, managers, executives. They had started converting to Valiants from a mix of Holden and Ford starting with the AP6 before my time and I was presented with a nearly all Valiant fleet of AP6 & VC. Base models for reps, 6 cyl. Regals for managers and V8's for execs. All were auto except for a few country reps who preferred three on the tree manuals. These were the most reliable and trouble free fleet I ever had to do with. The Slant Six lasted forever unless someone burst a water hose or holed a sump and kept driving. Torqueflites were never touched except for scheduled service. They were more economical to run than the opposition in spite of using a bit more fuel. The reps loved them and didn't deliberately abuse them like was done to makes they didn't like. Valiants were then an upmarket car and the reps thought this gave them some one-upmanship on rivals.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the planet... Alfa Romeo had 4cyl production cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, 5 speed gearboxes, alloy motors, etc with more power, faster acceleration, higher top speed, etc than any of these USA companies. Yankees - go home, we don't want your stinking rubbish here any more! :p

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Originally Posted by jonesy63

Alfa Romeo had 4cyl production cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, 5 speed gearboxes, alloy motors, etc with more power, faster acceleration, higher top speed,

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And rusted out within 12 months of ownership :o

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Originally Posted by jonesy63

Meanwhile, on the other side of the planet... Alfa Romeo had 4cyl production cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, 5 speed gearboxes, alloy motors, etc with more power, faster acceleration, higher top speed, etc than any of these USA companies. Yankees - go home, we don't want your stinking rubbish here any more! :p

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Don't mention the poor reliability and high maintenance to misquote John Cleese. Very short term motor cars like Fiats and Renaults and Triumph Heralds. Self destroying vehicles. Dealers other than specialist sports car dealers wouldn't have a bar of an Alfa. They didn't take to being bounced around on Oz roads of the time and the heat and dust. The engines developed major combustion and water leaks at the head joint. Ask anybody who raced one. I will give credit to the gearbox design with the walnut shell design of the housing. Very easy to repair. Most Eurocrap had longevity problems here. Like their heavy trucks, much local engineering input was needed. Of course cars imported in small numbers by "distributors" whose interest was in quitting the stock quickly at good profit didn't get any local engineering.

And, the problem of getting anybody into them. They were designed for Mediterranean dwarfs with small feet. Try getting a full grown Australian couple and some kids and accoutrements into even the four door sedans.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

yes, the HR 186S was special.
If you had a 186S HR Premier, you had "THE CAR" in those days, & it didn't take much to get them going hard, REALLY hard.
Dave Bennett of Perfectune fame, simply put a Perfectune head on his 186S 4 speed Premier, which then became quicker to 100MPH than an XR GT. He actually bought the car back a few years ago from the person he sold it to, although He's probably onsold it now.
The weak point of the car was the Opel 4 speed which did not take kindly to hard useage.
Pickles.

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Oh what great memories?

I actually owned a Holden HR Premier 186S Opel four speed.

I wanted one when it was first released, so by age of twenty in 1974, I found one of only seven that were registered in Perth.

It even had the rear wheel spats.

Pearlescent blue.

I added 6 inch chrome wheels and fat tyres.

It handled well enough, and went like a rocket.

Great memories of having "THE CAR"

:cool:

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Originally Posted by My Dream Car

Oh what great memories?

I actually owned a Holden HR Premier 186S Opel four speed.

I wanted one when it was first released, so by age of twenty in 1974, I found one of only seven that were registered in Perth.

It even had the rear wheel spats.

Pearlescent blue.

I added 6 inch chrome wheels and fat tyres.

It handled well enough, and went like a rocket.

Great memories of having "THE CAR"

:cool:

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Absolutely it was "THE CAR".
And, if you had it now, it'd be worth a damn sight more than when you sold it!!
Pickles.