Muscle In Disguise, 1967 Holden HR 186S 4-Speed

I had a 202 blue motor that i warmed over with a new cast Yella Terra head with a serious amount of porting and polishing and large valves. Sig Erson 3/4 roller rockers. Billeted Pro Cam from the US. Port matched manifolding. Balanced - fully even the harmonic balancer. Flat top pistons that gave xompression a kick. Steel timing chain set from a good manufacturer (cant recall brand now). Stock Strasbourg Varijet. Went like a rocket in my VH SLE Commodore. Left v8's off the line and rolling. Made 3.0 turbo VL 's look a bit anemic. I had a mate with a VL Police Pursuit from NSW - twin turbo and heaps of boost. That was quicker than mine. I loved the old holden straight 6's. My favourite stocker was the 161. Had a mildy warmed 149 bored to 161...nother story.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by ozscott

I had a 202 blue motor that i warmed over with a new cast Yella Terra head with a serious amount of porting and polishing and large valves. Sig Erson 3/4 roller rockers. Billeted Pro Cam from the US. Port matched manifolding. Balanced - fully even the harmonic balancer. Flat top pistons that gave xompression a kick. Steel timing chain set from a good manufacturer (cant recall brand now). Stock Strasbourg Varijet. Went like a rocket in my VH SLE Commodore. Left v8's off the line and rolling. Made 3.0 turbo VL 's look a bit anemic. I had a mate with a VL Police Pursuit from NSW - twin turbo and heaps of boost. That was quicker than mine. I loved the old holden straight 6's. My favourite stocker was the 161. Had a mildy warmed 149 bored to 161...nother story.

Cheers

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Sounds like a REALLY good engine mate, and "VH SLE"???...What an absolutely great car they were, and actually, still are,...one of the quietest & smoothest early Commodores that's for sure,.......can't remember the last time I saw a totally original one though.
"The Old days"! Pickles.

My first car was a low mileage HK Monaro 186. Had 40k miles on it when I bought it in 1986 and it was like new.

Was a POS, both the engine and the pathetic little Opel gearbox. The car itself, despite being pampered, was rusty and nothing remotely special to drive.

Since then I've had a HQ with a 202 and that was a POS.

My auntie had a VB with the 202 and the Traumatic = POS

My father owned a VB with the 2.85 litre 6 and a manual = stupendous POS

I had a VH with a 202 = POS but it was the first Holden 6 with a bit of go and had a thirst to match

In my opinion the Holden 6 cylinder was, you guessed it, a POS.

So I tried a non-Holden 6 and bought a VL Turbo. Now that was a great engine, just a pity about the rubbish Holden body they wrapped around it. Went from that to a VL 6 cylinder non-turbo. Still a nice engine, still wrapped in crap.

At the same time my mate bought a VL Calais 5.0 litre and there wasn't a bigger steaming pile of poo you could actually pay money for. What a massive POS that thing was.

Massive as in huge.

Then came a VS Acclaim V6. Was a step up from the rattly V6 in the VN but it continued the pre VL trend of wrapping a dud engine in a woeful package, slapping on some shiny paint and convincing people they needed one. It was a nothing car. It bored me so much I used to forget where I parked it for weeks at a time.

I thought it might have improved by late last century so I bought a VT Clubsport. Nup...195 very tiny KWs (I'm convinced it was more like 95kw), a crap gear change a clutch action that created a knocking sound and it all cost $60k.

But then came the chevs and finally a semi decent car. VX Clubsport was so far above any of the previous Holdens or HSVs it was ridiculous. A short stint with a VZ V6 ute made me realise they still couldn't build a decent engine and then a VZ Maloo restored my faith in the marque, sort of.

In my opinion, Holden never made a good engine. People might have turned Holden's various sow's ears into silk purses but that was about it.

I'd go so far as to say that they've really only just started making good cars, in the last decade or so. Prior to that it was either plastic rubbish or rusty rubbish. Either way it was rubbish.

Back in the day I'd have been much happier with a Chrysler/Valiant. I still remember with fondness the 245 in my Grandmother's Centura. Compared to a Holden 6 or even a V8...well you couldn't compare them. It was sensational. The car was terrible but the engine was awesome, which put it an engine ahead of any Holden at the time.

And I grew up a Holden tragic. I came to realise that it was mostly a Holden tragedy.

In my personal experience, almost anything from Japan or Europe was and still is well ahead of any Holden. Having said that, I suspect they are now building a world class car, it's just a bit late and the wrong sort of car.

Steane, Everybody has a right to their opinion, but I'd probably disagree with much of what you say, although a 186 Monaro or a 202HQ wouldn't float my boat either...Your relos seem to have bought at the lower end of the power spectrum,.....I wouldn't want them either,.....I would definitely want more performance, so I wouldn't buy a 2.85 for example.
In actuall fact, Holden have made some great engines, although maybe not in the configuration/cars that you mention which I probably wouldn't want to own either.
But the Holden "Red Motor" was a ripper, as demonstrated by its performance in an XU1. And the 308 Holden V8 was a superb engine, as was its derivative the 355 stroker.
Of course, time marches on, We now have the superb range of Chev engines from the U.S.(for a couple of years anyway), but in their day, the Holden V8 was OK, IMHO.
Pickles.
NB: I ain't particularly a Holden man or a Ford man or anything else in particular really. I've been lucky enough to own a range of different makes, all of which I've seen something good in, otherwise I wouldn't have bought 'em,...but one thing I always do,...I will invariably will order the most performance orientated drive train I can?,......didn't have much choce with the Defender though!!

Yeah, you'll never convince me Pickles but it is fun to hear the different views that people have.:D It's what makes the world go around and gives us all something to talk about.

I've also owned way too many cars and performance used to matter to me, it was all that mattered, but I actually get far more enjoyment out of the Deefer than any performance car I've owned, and I've had some rippers (not the HSVs).

Such is life!

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Originally Posted by steane

Yeah, you'll never convince me Pickles but it is fun to hear the different views that people have.:D It's what makes the world go around and gives us all something to talk about.

I've also owned way too many cars and performance used to matter to me, it was all that mattered, but I actually get far more enjoyment out of the Deefer than any performance car I've owned, and I've had some rippers (not the HSVs).

Such is life!

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"More enjoyment out of the Deefer"?...Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
Wifey & I comment on this all the time that the car we've most enjoyed, & the vehicle We've enjoyed being in most, is Gracie, our Defender,.....with all of her 90KW!!!
Regards, Pickles.

I had a 67 HR with the stock 186, but modified with the 192 kit, yella terra head, triple SUs, cam, and so on, while it was fast enough and with OK handling and when I wasn't breaking engine mounts or blowing pistons, it had nothing on my 1966 Triumph 2.5PI, NOW THAT WAS A CAR, fully independent suspension, full leather and wood grain inerior, camping body interior, disc brakes, fuel injection, never had an issue with this car, 130mph top speed, heaps faster than any 6 cyclinder Holden Ford or Valiant, as quick as a HQ 350 Monaro, I know that for sure, as I dragged one:burnrubber:

Out of all the so called Australian cars I've owned(Holden Ford Valiant) it's a tie between my 63 XL Ford wagon, slow yes, but I just loved this car, my 67 VIP VC Valiant V8, fast, really really thirsty and handled like a boat and my 302 XB GS Ford Falcon, this was fast, handled well, comfy, thirsty, heaps of room, towed well and sounded AWESOME:D

I found this on the Shannons Club

HD/HR X2, To many Carbs, by Joe Kenwright

The HD Special was plainer than previous entry Standard models even with this one’s optional white roof. The artistic licence in Holden HD brochure illustrations seemed to portray a different car to the one in this photo. Buyers desperate for extra room initially overlooked the oddball looks before the skinny track so evident here and other shortcuts challenged long-standing loyalties. (Photo from Wikimedia Commons)
The Holden HD was a brutal reminder of what it cost Holden after Detroit was forced to intervene and re-work the EJ and EH then replace the local EF proposal with the HD. As a futuristic design from a GM experimental studio in Detroit, the HD launched in February 1965 had the right pedigree until Holden attempts to anticipate local market sensitivities were overruled. Buyer reaction then prompted an early local HR facelift. The X2 engine option suffered by association with what many regard as the worst Holden ever.
Far worse than the sales it cost Holden, the HD proved that loyalty to Holden was product-driven and not a given. The HD wrong turn and its X2 engine ill-suited to the average Holden buyer emboldened rivals.

Steane we had 245 and 265 vals. My brother has a 265 worked over. They are great motors. Apart from that your post is only relevant to stockers. If you had heard warmed over versions singing at 6500 rpm you wouldnt be holding back the praise. I say again that my 40 thou over blue motor left vl turbos in the shade.

Cheers

Cheers

Hi Pickles. Mate mine was 2 tone metallic greeny silver and dark green. M21 conversion. Stock suspension save for Peddars struts and rack and i had a larger front roll bar. Stock springs kept a much better ride on our roads than the blue pointers had. My brother has it now and its still sweet....all green velour interior with single spoke wheel. Mine had 15 inch Performance Stryker Mags - long thin fingers crhome and black. Handled well.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by ozscott

Steane we had 245 and 265 vals. My brother has a 265 worked over. They are great motors. Apart from that your post is only relevant to stockers. If you had heard warmed over versions singing at 6500 rpm you wouldnt be holding back the praise. I say again that my 40 thou over blue motor left vl turbos in the shade.

Cheers

Cheers

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Yeah, I am only referring to my experience with the stock Holden product. I had no experience with modified Holden donks, which was probably a good thing for my long suffering wallet back when I was a young chap. I wanted to love the stockers, I really did, but they wouldn't let me:p