Thread: Muscle In Disguise, 1967 Holden HR 186S 4-Speed

Craig, great story mate, loved it,...good to speak to another "car man".
There was a 225 Valiant in Melbourne that I do remember, it was written up in several magazines at the time, it was an S Series, & it had a mega hot, mega dollar engine in it, triple webers etc, and IMMACULATE, I saw it competing at the Templestowe hillclimb.
A friend of mine Ray Miles (helped to build "THE SHAKER" Monaro funny car/drag car) had a VC Regal V8, a magnificent car, 273V8, & he imported some Weiand (spelt right?) stuff from the states, twin 4 barrel manifold etc, & then he built a magnificent dual exhaust for it where the dual exhausts exited via the rear bumper overriders! Ray also had a very quick Mercury Cyclone.
Pickles.

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

A mate has a HR 186S 4 speed bought new when he came out of his apprenticeship as a plumber and drainer. He rarely drives it now and even keeps it locked up at another address, an investment property rented to his sister, as security against thieves who may be able to get his address from TMR. The car is fairly low mileage for something nearly 50 years old and as clean as the proverbial whistle always having been garaged.

I am surprised brian. I expected your usual post about cars from this era of no technical merit with no competition history...

Originally Posted by Pickles2

There were huge numbers of hot Holden's around in those days,...can't ever remember seeing a modified 225.
Pickles.

Thats because you had to modify the rust bucket holdens to get them to go - the Valiants didn't need it. A performance Holden engine in 67 was still way behind the standard slant 6 - and of course a little later the HP version of the slant 6 came out.

A bit like a Toyota vs Landie argument - you have to modify a Crapota but not a Landie.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I am surprised brian. I expected your usual post about cars from this era of no technical merit with no competition history...

Well, I wouldn't bother with one. To me it is just an old Holden albeit a rare model, uncommon even when new and almost non-existent today. Some think they are worth a lot of money. Allan does, which is why he keeps it secured at his sister's home. They were once upon a time a target for thieves like Falcon GT's.

Its condition is a credit to him. Almost 50 years old and looks near new. Might even be the only clean original left. Has around 120,000 miles and has had little use in the past 15 years or so. He has been offered what I consider ridiculous sums of money for it but doesn't wish to sell.

He finished an apprenticeship with a domestic plumber in 1965 and was sacked. Soon after he started working on shutdowns and ship repair. He told me he started earning three times what he was paid as a fifth year apprentice and soon could afford a new car. He did what any cashed up 21 year old did and bought the hot model of the time. Then became self-employed and bought a ute, got married and bought a station wagon and the 186S got less and less use.

Originally Posted by garrycol

Thats because you had to modify the rust bucket holdens to get them to go - the Valiants didn't need it. A performance Holden engine in 67 was still way behind the standard slant 6 - and of course a little later the HP version of the slant 6 came out.

A bit like a Toyota vs Landie argument - you have to modify a Crapota but not a Landie.

Rust?,...well doesn't matter whether it's a Holden, a Ford, or a Chrysler product, rust was a massive problem in all of them.
As far as modified engines go, there was a lot more stuff for the Holden engine, and the 186/202 red motor was/is a ripper, as evidenced by that engine's "Herculean" efforts at Bathurst.
Actually, I don't think the 225 was a very good engine. The later 245 & particularly the 265,....well no argument from me there, particularly the E49, and the V8 E55 340 engine had enormous potential as evidenced in U.S. Trans Am racing.
But, the 225 engine, well looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
Perhaps you could tell me about what sort of mods you've seen on the 225, what sort of power etc, because the only one I can remember was the S Series I mentioned?
Pickles.

I personally not see any mods other than standard mods for the 160hp and Pacer.

My point is that compared to the Holden and Ford 6 cylinders of the time - the 225s did not need mods as they already produced far more than the standard opposition and when the Holden engines were modded and hotted up it was only then they approached the standard family 225.

It was unfortunate that Chrysler did not take on the Holdens and the early Falcon GTs in the mid 60s as they would have whooped them.

It is also unfortunate that when Chrysler did decide to go racing it was in a 225 Pacer when at the time a standard Valiant Regal 770 with the asthmatic 318 Fireball would have performed better - but not as good as the 350 Monaros and 351 Falcons.

Garry

Well Gary, I don't see how you could say they would've "Whooped" them, because neither you nor I know what would have happened. Budget has a lot to do with it, as does homologation etc etc etc, so it's really an unknown situation, so what is your reason for saying that?
As an example, as I remember, the Charger E49, which was a REALLY good car, with the ultimate 6 cyl Chrysler engine (well with what we'd seen in Aus anyway) beat neither the Ford nor the Holden to 1st place at Bathurst. Why would you say that was?
Pickles.

Yes - you are talking 71-73 where the subject of the thread is back in 1967. Yes I agree that the E38/E49 was a bit of a disappointment race result wise but as discussed in the E49 thread there are probably other reasons related to available drivers etc rather than the car itself. Was faster in some areas and slower in others.

However back to 1967, the base 225 had more power and torque in its basic form than the suped up Holden engines of the time.

The Valiant also had the small V8 as well that was better again - it had been around for a couple of years before the HR came out. I can remember giving my dad a hard time for getting a 225 instead of the V8 in his new AP6 in 1965.

It was only when Ford released their small V8 in about 66/67 that either Ford or Holden had engines outperformed the 225 let alone the V8.