Thread: The Whyalla steel works must be saved, at any cost

Originally Posted by PAT303

I can see your point but I can't feel sorry for the Oz car industry.Land Rover was in a worse position than any Oz manufacturer and they dug themselves out of a bottomless pit and now are one of the most innovative car manufacturers there is and are getting better all the time.Land Rover didn't use excuses,they got on with it even though the pound is stronger than the dollar ever was,'olden and fud built rubbish no one want's,good riddance. Pat

I agree with the sentiment, the Australian car industry did kill itself, just like any relationship where no effort is put in... but if you look at how many owners LR has had, you'd see that it's been dug out many times. LRA too, along with quite a few dealerships when the union loving Labor idiots introduced the LCT in the 90's... And that did 4/5th's of SFA to prop up local industry.

Had it not been for significant investment, Land Rover wouldn't have had the means to continue, just like the rest of BL. They did use the investment wisely though, unlike the bogans building Falcons and Commodores... As far as I'm concerned the Holden died at the start of Commodore. Ford is still well alive, just not Aussie built ones...

Originally Posted by Ean Austral

Why if that is the case was the car industry continually wanting government subsides if it was sustainable ? I am not being argumentive, but I have never read anything that would suggest anything like that statement. It seemed to me that when the government said no more they all said they are unsustainable and left.


Cheers Ean

Re read the rest of the paragraph and google it. Thailand realised that building over a million cars , over half for export would give directly several hundred thousand jobs ( over a million in flow on for their new incomes)and a massive boost to govt coffers from income taxes that's why they offers zero tax for 7 years(google it) Again Google USA vehicle production support compared to Australia, it's 2:1. A majority of EU export sales , you know the ones that make numbers sustainable for everything from a Passat to a Citroen c5 are no longer to USA but China. Now whose closer? Yet we've never seriously exported there? Even when building LHD pontiacs,Wonder why?

Originally Posted by Ean Austral

We live in a country that wants free health /medical is an example, it costs a fortune for the system we have but when the question of having to pay for the service, even $5 , you would have thought world was going to end, but the majority of people complaining the loudest , are the same people who put the most strain on that system and contribute the least.


Look at the debarcle of the HECS system, several billion of tax $$ and rising , that will never be seen again because nothing has to be paid until you earn $50k a year, there are people who will spend their life at uni and never cost them a cent. When its suggested that it be lowered to $30k its howled down as a money grab.


We have a population of what 23 million and we are not getting enough tax from that population to fund the life style we want , but when its suggested that people will have to pay more it gets that much bad media attention the government backs down, and we end up further in debt. As a country we are living beyond our means but no one wants to admit that there is a problem.


Just my point of view of course.


Cheers Ean

Ean, THANK YOU. Most REALISTICALLY put. I have nothing to add.
It's ridiculous, everybody wants "help" or "more",...the Vic Govt wants "more" for road funding, the Health system wants "more", the Education system is crying out for "More"????? Is this not the truth, is this not what is being requested,...Jeez, it's in the press every day?...Where are the dollars.
Simply, & even if no-one's listening (as I've said before), You speak the truth.
Pickles.

Originally Posted by incisor

what costs have increased at a much higher rate than others over the last few years.. ?

Wages

Originally Posted by Ean Austral

We live in a country that wants free health /medical is an example, it costs a fortune for the system we have but when the question of having to pay for the service, even $5 , you would have thought world was going to end, but the majority of people complaining the loudest , are the same people who put the most strain on that system and contribute the least.


Look at the debarcle of the HECS system, several billion of tax $$ and rising , that will never be seen again because nothing has to be paid until you earn $50k a year, there are people who will spend their life at uni and never cost them a cent. When its suggested that it be lowered to $30k its howled down as a money grab.


We have a population of what 23 million and we are not getting enough tax from that population to fund the life style we want , but when its suggested that people will have to pay more it gets that much bad media attention the government backs down, and we end up further in debt. As a country we are living beyond our means but no one wants to admit that there is a problem.


Just my point of view of course.


Cheers Ean

Spot on.....I recon everybody (that has a job maybe) should pay something to see a doctor, like you said even if it's $5

Originally Posted by Pickles2

Ean, THANK YOU. Most REALISTICALLY put. I have nothing to add.
It's ridiculous, everybody wants "help" or "more",...the Vic Govt wants "more" for road funding, the Health system wants "more", the Education system is crying out for "More"????? Is this not the truth, is this not what is being requested,...Jeez, it's in the press every day?...Where are the dollars.
Simply, & even if no-one's listening (as I've said before), You speak the truth.
Pickles.

So to get back on topic, instead of 7000 jobs nationwide and 3000 of those in Whyalla,a town of 22,000. Paying over $10-30,000 plus in tax each and earning income being spent in the local economy . You would rather they each get paid by your taxes $15,000 plus in welfare and make half the town unemployed?
That's about $60 million LOST in income tax and north of $50 million paid in welfare in one town , a $110million loss to the govt PER YEAR. Nationally that figure for one steel is above $250million a year loss to us the taxpayer!
But you still insist a local content rule would be stupid?
P.s those are income tax figures alone , now if you throw in the loss of taxes from the GST alone on their products there's well over another $500million income lost to us. Then when they start to make a profit, further taxes.

Originally Posted by frantic

Re read the rest of the paragraph and google it. Thailand realised that building over a million cars , over half for export would give directly several hundred thousand jobs ( over a million in flow on for their new incomes)and a massive boost to govt coffers from income taxes that's why they offers zero tax for 7 years(google it) Again Google USA vehicle production support compared to Australia, it's 2:1. A majority of EU export sales , you know the ones that make numbers sustainable for everything from a Passat to a Citroen c5 are no longer to USA but China. Now whose closer? Yet we've never seriously exported there? Even when building LHD pontiacs,Wonder why?

Aaahh, "LHD Pontiacs"?.....Now you're in my part of the woods.
Ya know one of the MAJOR reasons why that didn't work?.......It was because of the Unions, the US Unions, that "almost" amongst many other of their "conditions" caused the death of GM.
And the "reason" I'm speaking of, is that the "SS" Chev in the U.S. could've been a massively popular car, & why wouldn't it be (and why wouldn't it be,..RWD V8, NO-ONE had a bad word to say about it), but GM couldn't promote it, because the US Unions wouldn't let them, because they considered it a threat to "their" jobs, because the car was not being built by them.....FACT.
I'm pretty close to Holden, a V8 Commodore man through & through,..it's a magic car, would've been a sensational car in the US,.......BUT,...well Frantic, I'll leave the answer to you?
Pickles.

Originally Posted by frantic

Re read the rest of the paragraph and google it. Thailand realised that building over a million cars , over half for export would give directly several hundred thousand jobs ( over a million in flow on for their new incomes)and a massive boost to govt coffers from income taxes that's why they offers zero tax for 7 years(google it) Again Google USA vehicle production support compared to Australia, it's 2:1. A majority of EU export sales , you know the ones that make numbers sustainable for everything from a Passat to a Citroen c5 are no longer to USA but China. Now whose closer? Yet we've never seriously exported there? Even when building LHD pontiacs,Wonder why?

I will read it as you suggest, but when I read Thailand I always think are we comparing apples with apples. I wonder what the cost per car to build the same amount of cars in Australia would be with our labour costs, union rules etc etc would be.


I know nothing of the car industry , but let me give you some example of something I do know about.
I can and we do send 40 foot containers of prawns to Indonesia and Thailand to get processed into prawn meat and cutlets, BUT, we also do the same job in our Brisbane factory. So the cost including freight by sea to these countries and returned to east coast Australia is - Indonesia approx. $2 per kilo , Thailand $2.50 per kilo. Now to do the same job in our factory here is 5 times that and only if we work normal hours , its more if we do weekend or public holidays , and to my knowledge we are the only company left that still does this type of processing in Australia.


So whats my point , its that there may be several reasons why most car companies are now using these countries , because like us ( Australia ) they have most likely priced themselves out of business with high labour costs.


Just a thought.


Cheers Ean