Thread: Should tourists climb Uluru?

Originally Posted by justinc

Bob I'm glad to hear the succes stories from there. I was traveling that area in '88 and it didn't seem that much of a successful environment however I didn't get to spend a lot of time there. Beautiful country though, as always awe inspiring.

Jc

Success stories don't sell newspapers. When my mate was at Docker river, he had to drive to all the remote communities , to see how they were travelling. He says the more remote they were, the better the people were. He and I spent some years in Darwin, and his attitude towards the Aboriginal was tempered by what went on there. Not good. Working at Docker River was not easy, it took a complete turnaround of his mind set. At the end he said he had to have a break, but he said it was some of the best years of his life. He made some life long friends , and was shown places white men just aren't normally shown.

In the QWeekend, Saturday, is a story from Aurukun. The line in says;
" Wik elders believe instilling the children of Aurukun with dreams and reconnecting them with country is the answer to breaking a decades long cycle of disadvantage, and abuse. " The article goes on. " Almost 4 generations of binge drinking, criminal behaviour and joblessness has led to a disconnect from culture for many in Arukun. Every one still speaks the lingua franca Wik Mungkan, but that's it. Traditional owner Dawn Archer says ' Our young people need to know our songlines, our dances, and how to take care of our country. It's good to get them out of the class room, away from the dramas of Arukun, to show them the footsteps of our ancestors. ' "

Just two pin ****** in an ocean of despair. But what did Vincent say? I'm getting soft in my old age. I tear up , especially when one of our military are flown home in a coffin, and every time I hear this song.

https://youtu.be/6_ndC07C2qw?list=RD6_ndC07C2qw

Originally Posted by barney

But all through europe, people are welcome to climb the spires of some of the oldest cathedrals, Ayers Eock doesn't belong to amyone, the aboriginals will tell you that. They belong to the land and weather you have been in this country for one generation, 5 generations or 100 generations, we are all part of the country and should be allowed to do what we want as long as it is legal.

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Thanks Barney. My experience, little as it is, is that Aboriginal people in country don't believe they own the land, but believe they are custodians of the land. Their laws prohibit men from certain sites at Uluru, as well as women, and uninitiated boys. If their law doesn't allow this, the very least we can do is learn the law. And respect one small part of it. [ edit. makes more sense]

Originally Posted by bob10

Thanks Barney. My experience, little as it is, is that Aboriginal people in country don't believe they own the land, but believe they are custodians of the land. Their laws prohibit men from certain sites at Uluru, as well as women, and uninitiated boys. If their law doesn't allow this, the very least we can do is learn the law. And obey it.

Well, IMHO, "We" don't have to OBEY Aboriginal "traditions" or anything, anymore than Aboriginal people have to "obey" the many traditions of western civilization. And that is part of the problem,..."Them" & "us".....It should be "WE".
No-one "OWNS" this great great land we live inn, the land we call Aussie. No-one "owns" Aussie, anymore than anyone "owns " Uluru.
Like has been mentioned, Scientists have said Ayres Rock or Uluru, whatever you want to call it, has existed for at least 600 million years, the Aboriginal people came across it 20,000 years ago, a microcosm in terms of evolution, which certainly does not confirm ownership or anything else to ANYONE, nor does it mean that European "Colonists" have any "rights"., but, nor does it mean that they do not have any.
Uluru, doesn't "BELONG" to anyone on this planet. It is a wonderful creation, & should be shared by everyone, no matter what their beliefs.
Climbing Uluru may have different meanings for many, negative or posiive, from whatever "side" (I say there shouldn't be a "side") you are on, the main aspect being, that we appreciate it for the great part of AUSTRALIA that it is,.....equally, for EVERYONE.
Does anyone have the current position from a recognized spokesman from the Anangu people as to what their OFFICIAL position is?
Pickles.

Originally Posted by Pickles2

Well, IMHO, "We" don't have to OBEY Aboriginal "traditions" or anything, anymore than Aboriginal people have to "obey" the many traditions of western civilization. And that is part of the problem,..."Them" & "us".....It should be "WE".
No-one "OWNS" this great great land we live inn, the land we call Aussie. No-one "owns" Aussie, anymore than anyone "owns " Uluru.
Like has been mentioned, Scientists have said Ayres Rock or Uluru, whatever you want to call it, has existed for at least 600 million years, the Aboriginal people came across it 20,000 years ago, a microcosm in terms of evolution, which certainly does not confirm ownership or anything else to ANYONE, nor does it mean that European "Colonists" have any "rights"., but, nor does it mean that they do not have any.
Uluru, doesn't "BELONG" to anyone on this planet. It is a wonderful creation, & should be shared by everyone, no matter what their beliefs.
Climbing Uluru may have different meanings for many, negative or posiive, from whatever "side" (I say there shouldn't be a "side") you are on, the main aspect being, that we appreciate it for the great part of AUSTRALIA that it is,.....equally, for EVERYONE.
Does anyone have the current position from a recognized spokesman from the Anangu people as to what their OFFICIAL position is?
Pickles.

Sorry, Pickles, but you just don't get it.

Originally Posted by bob10

Thanks Barney. My experience, little as it is, is that Aboriginal people in country don't believe they own the land, but believe they are custodians of the land. Their laws prohibit men from certain sites at Uluru, as well as women, and uninitiated boys. If their law doesn't allow this, the very least we can do is learn the law. And respect one small part of it. [ edit. makes more sense]

with that in place, how do you feel about the fact that foreigners can come here and have our society bend to their will because they want their laws and beliefs respected over the ones that are in place of the country they've come to.

With that out there, how do you think the aboriginal societies would have gone if Australia had been settled by say the dutch or the muslims or the sheit? (yeah probably spelt that last one wrong)

Originally Posted by bob10

Sorry, Pickles, but you just don't get it.

I dont know I reckon with

Originally Posted by Pickles2

It is a wonderful creation, & should be shared by everyone, no matter what their beliefs.
Climbing Uluru may have different meanings for many, negative or posiive, from whatever "side" (I say there shouldn't be a "side") you are on, the main aspect being, that we appreciate it for the great part of AUSTRALIA that it is,.....equally, for EVERYONE.

that little bit pretty much levels the playing field.. lets take it a step further.

If the aboriginals dont want to share then neither do us white fellas, so the aboriginals can hand back all the free housing, free medical, the welfare payments and handouts, in fact not only that they can pay it back and do so with interest as well as paying back all the money thats been expended keeping them in line when they've come to play in our society and made a hash of it.

" Although I respect Aboriginal cultural beliefs, they're not my cultural beliefs. Why is it offensive for me to climb?

Uluru is a national treasure and all tourists are welcomed by the Traditional Owners to share it. As the legal owners, they respectfully request that visitors no longer climb the rock. They do so because Uluru is a place of great spiritual importance and one which they are obliged to look after.

As Traditional Owner Kunmanara says: That's a really important sacred thing that you are climbing. You shouldn't climb. It's not the real thing about this place. The real thing is listening to everything. And maybe that makes you a bit sad. But anyway that's what we have to say. We are obliged by Tjukurrpa to say. And all the tourists will brighten up and say, Oh I see. This is the right way. This is the thing that's right. This is the proper way: no climbing."

https://www.reconciliation.org.au/ne...limbing-uluru/

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

with that in place, how do you feel about the fact that foreigners can come here and have our society bend to their will because they want their laws and beliefs respected over the ones that are in place of the country they've come to.

With that out there, how do you think the aboriginal societies would have gone if Australia had been settled by say the dutch or the muslims or the sheit? (yeah probably spelt that last one wrong)





I dont know I reckon with



that little bit pretty much levels the playing field.. lets take it a step further.

If the aboriginals dont want to share then neither do us white fellas, so the aboriginals can hand back all the free housing, free medical, the welfare payments and handouts, in fact not only that they can pay it back and do so with interest as well as paying back all the money thats been expended keeping them in line when they've come to play in our society and made a hash of it.

Can you give an actual example of our laws and customs bending to their practices and beliefs? I haven't noticed any - quite the opposite, actually, some of us seem determined to make recent arrivals feel very unwelcome - I've certainly noticed that.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

with that in place, how do you feel about the fact that foreigners can come here and have our society bend to their will because they want their laws and beliefs respected over the ones that are in place of the country they've come to.

With that out there, how do you think the aboriginal societies would have gone if Australia had been settled by say the dutch or the muslims or the sheit? (yeah probably spelt that last one wrong)





I dont know I reckon with



that little bit pretty much levels the playing field.. lets take it a step further.

If the aboriginals dont want to share then neither do us white fellas, so the aboriginals can hand back all the free housing, free medical, the welfare payments and handouts, in fact not only that they can pay it back and do so with interest as well as paying back all the money thats been expended keeping them in line when they've come to play in our society and made a hash of it.

Can you give an actual example of our laws and customs bending to their practices and beliefs? I haven't noticed any - quite the opposite, actually, some of us seem determined to make recent arrivals feel very unwelcome - I've certainly noticed that.

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A question for CA I think.