Should tourists climb Uluru?

Thanks Dave, that helps a lot.
Are you able to tell me what the initiations involve at all, as in, are they from "boy to man", or perhaps "man to elder" or something?

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

Its always been my stand point.


the biggest issue around it is intonation.

unfortunately proper "tribal" language does not easily translate to english. even dialect to dialect is in some cases difficult. even over coming the language barrier too many "proper" indigenous are besmirched by the reactions and perceptions created by their interbred brethren. The opinions of the valued few swamped, mired and lost in the torrent of overwhelming opinion.

Its a grey area thing. and in this particular grey area until the general populous of the "white fella" can be convinced that the opinion and belief of the few that still hold to the true ways should still be respected. Unfortunately while the perceived typical aboriginal is as it is.. it aint going to happen.

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Europeans will never understand, they are not wired for it. I have an indigenous grand parent, and I don't really understand. Let me tell you something.I was not told about our indigenous side until I was 40 years old. Any one with colour in their family was not welcome in polite Australian society. Good luck getting a good job, good luck being served in a pub. You belonged on the other side of the tracks. And I'm talking about the 50's and 60's. So those with colour denied it, and pushed that part of their life away. I regret I never had the chance to talk to my Grandmother about her Mother, and their people. She was one of the kindest, welcoming people I have ever met .I had a hint of what was what when, when I was a lad, Nana took in numerous indigenous children, and looked after them as her own. I didn't understand the Aunty system.

And then, there was uncle Graham. Dads brother. Supposedly. He had a great sun tan, tall and thin, Quiet, represented Qld in Aussie rules. It took a while to connect the dots. After I found out the truth, I was angry. Angry at my parents and Aunties and Uncles, angry at bigoted Australian society, angry at myself for not having the courage to chase the truth. I'm still angry, at a society that successfully destroyed an ancient culture through ignorance, hate, and prejudice. Ingrained truths still in Australian society.

Yes, I've seen the side of Aboriginal culture that most of Australian society concentrate on. The fringe dwellers, alcoholics, thieves, and beggars.
What our privileged society can't come to grips with, is that fringe dwellers, alcoholics, thieves and beggars no longer are the domain of Aboriginal Australia alone. That's enough, I'm angry. I am sick and tired of wanting to grab some one by the throat and shake them , when are we ever going to wake up.

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Originally Posted by bob10

Being asked in an arrogant way, " answer the question", after resurrecting 18th century thinking , is enough to make any one who has been trying to explain the complexities of modern Aboriginal life, in a respectful way, in todays' environment, well, just shake the head. I have noticed this happens in a few of your posts, and when challenged, you use the play the man card. I have Promised myself I will not fall for that again.

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Well, you're seeing something I certainly don't here - I don't agree with a lot of what Pickles says - we've has some good robust discussions over the years. One thing I can say is that he never plays the man. No idea how you came to that conclusion from his post at all.

And. Although I don't agree with a lot of people on this forum, I'd still happily sit down and have a beer and a chat with them - including you Bob, you're near the top of my list:). Why does everyone think that someone with a differing opinion can't be their friend?

It would be pretty boring sitting around the campfire if we all agree with each other all the time.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Well, you're seeing something I certainly don't here - I don't agree with a lot of what Pickles says - we've has some good robust discussions over the years. One thing I can say is that he never plays the man. No idea how you came to that conclusion from his post at all.

And. Although I don't agree with a lot of people on this forum, I'd still happily sit down and have a beer and a chat with them - including you Bob, you're near the top of my list:). Why does everyone think that someone with a differing opinion can't be their friend?

It would be pretty boring sitting around the campfire if we all agree with each other all the time.

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Good to see you are paying attention. I doubt Mr Pickles would ever play the man. Too much of an Englishman for that. I don't dislike him, but he has that English trait of being as annoying as a single mossie inside your mossie net. Actually I'm warming to him. Like an eccentric uncle. Don't tell him, he might think I like him.

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Originally Posted by bob10

Good to see you are paying attention. I doubt Mr Pickles would ever play the man. Too much of an Englishman for that. I don't dislike him, but he has that English trait of being as annoying as a single mossie inside your mossie net. Actually I'm warming to him. Like an eccentric uncle. Don't tell him, he might think I like him.

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How could I not agree with that.
Regards, Pickles.