Thread: Australian Army's new rifle being sold to American civilians

Originally Posted by PhilipA

So we should be the moral compass of the World?

If someone wants to buy a gun, if they cannot get the Australian gun they will buy a gun made elsewhere.

...

Who said we shouldn't sell them to the US. I didn't. I am all for supporting Australian manufacturing.

I see 2 trains of thought in this thread..
What I dont see is the reference to statistics, that show the violence in society..
In the US town of Kennasaw, it is compulsory for the head of the home to possess a firearm and have it accessible at all times. No home invasions, no murders, no violence, in fact no media coverage because they dont have the violence issues... They adopted this law in 1982 after the Virginia tech massacre... Most dangerous places in the US have restrictions, mostly total gun bans...

If you want to live in a gun free environment, go to Honduras, no guns allowed at all... Highest murder rate in the world, highest violence and home invasion...
Safest place is Switzerland, plenty guns there, no violence gun deaths murders, safest place on earth..

Canada adopted the same system that NZ uses, only last year. Drop in violent crime of 70% within 2 months of burning all registrations, personal and firearm.. Now you just need to have no criminal record and a safe, then you can buy what you want according to the class you applied for.

I am not talking as just a hunter, stock owner, shooter... I only recently had an armed drug addict break in and attempt to rob me.. I disarmed him and gave some injuries for the police to find him.. He would not have attempted if the laws allowed people to possess firearms in large numbers.. He had no idea that I am a hunter, and I would never have taken a firearm to that fight either...

History has shown what happens when you disarm society, this concept has been used as far back as Roman times... Disarm and create fear, then control completely... Hitler has done that in recent times and I am sure others will quote other situations...

Now as for the Military weapon shown(F88 semi auto), not my thing, being ex army, I dont like military weapons built in recent times, they have short barrels, low accuracy, and no wood... Give me a .300 WM or a 30/30 and i'm happy...

Mm sorry mate will agree to disagree. You add anger alcohol and firearms to your normal domestic situation the result can be poor. Unfortunately today the self control , discipline, responsibility that comes with so many things, like raising a family, driving a car, seems to be missing for many. Add a lethal weapon into the mix? Watch Jim Jeffries on this. Pretty relevant and he is brave.

Examples sound like they have the answer, but like all arguments, only one side gets presented by the louder group..

This concept of violence increasing and guns will make it worse, is what the media have pushed and use what they call as "prime examples"...

The actual effect of increased or compulsory firearms has always resulted in decrease of crime and violence, yet media will not push that and the anti's dont want people seeing that they are wrong..

I am the last member of my family to cop an armed robbery...
My sister worked in a servo for the last 4 years, regular hold ups, yet she still supports the idea of firearms ownership..

Maybe not me owning one, but anyone else...

Originally Posted by Wraithe

Now as for the Military weapon shown(F88 semi auto), not my thing, being ex army, I dont like military weapons built in recent times, they have short barrels, low accuracy, and no wood... Give me a .300 WM or a 30/30 and i'm happy...

Have you used a F88?.....

I am surprised that countries are still buying them as I thought they would have reached there use by date.

On a two way range good luck with your 303, even if you upgraded to a SLR........and ill take a F88 with a grenade launcher, some night vision and lasers any day.

Originally Posted by Wraithe

...

In the US town of Kennasaw, it is compulsory for the head of the home to possess a firearm and have it accessible at all times. No home invasions, no murders, no violence, in fact no media coverage because they dont have the violence issues... They adopted this law in 1982 after the Virginia tech massacre...

You may want to read this:
What Kenne-Saw : snopes.com

So while the law remained on the books, there was functionally no "requirement" anyone own a gun, the already low crime rate of Kennesaw didn't "plummet," and the absence of the law's enforcement rendered it virtually meaningless.

Oh and the Virginia Tech shooting was in 2007.

Originally Posted by Wraithe

Most dangerous places in the US have restrictions, mostly total gun bans...

Um, you have heard of the 2nd amendment???

Originally Posted by Wraithe

If you want to live in a gun free environment, go to Honduras, no guns allowed at all... Highest murder rate in the world, highest violence and home invasion...
Safest place is Switzerland, plenty guns there, no violence gun deaths murders, safest place on earth..

Nice cherrypicking, but how about a sensible look at the data.


https://zachmortensen.files.wordpres...firearms-1.jpg


Or if we remove the 3rd world countries:

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/cho...0countries.jpg


This graph is also compelling


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/fea...inecharts3.jpg


Don't get me wrong, IMHO guns are tools, and just like any other tool have their place. But I am a realist when it comes to the data.

Originally Posted by weeds

Have you used a F88?.....

I am surprised that countries are still buying them as I thought they would have reached there use by date.

On a two way range good luck with your 303, even if you upgraded to a SLR........and ill take a F88 with a grenade launcher, some night vision and lasers any day.

They where being adopted as I was leaving.. The weapon we trialled was an Austrian made weapon...

SLR nah, never did like them...

.303 is not that bad for hunting. I dont have one anymore, but it was good fore a hunting rifle.

.300 WM is good for the wheatbelt, but when at home, 300 metres is a long shot, thus the 30/30 is more suitable..
Only issue with the 300, is the recoil, but I enjoy the rifle so enjoy the recoil. It comes into its own when someone thinks they can handle anything, thats when I bring out the heavier rounds and let them kill a piece of paper..


I reload my own, so I have developed rounds to suit my centrefires. I dont do much shooting, but then I also have stock to keep me out of trouble and just, as of today, stopped being the carer of an elderly friend with Alzheimer's.

So now maybe back into shooting, if health permits.. The Landy will now make it more possible too..

Originally Posted by isuzurover

You may want to read this:
What Kenne-Saw : snopes.com



Oh and the Virginia Tech shooting was in 2007.





Um, you have heard of the 2nd amendment???




Nice cherrypicking, but how about a sensible look at the data.


https://zachmortensen.files.wordpres...firearms-1.jpg


Or if we remove the 3rd world countries:

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/cho...0countries.jpg


This graph is also compelling


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/fea...inecharts3.jpg


Don't get me wrong, IMHO guns are tools, and just like any other tool have their place. But I am a realist when it comes to the data.

Nice, all stats are useful...

I would like to find statistics that seperate Licensed firearms to unlicensed, but have not found that and the US dont require it, only some states...
In regards to the 2nd amendment, states do have rights to restrict, its been a contentious issue for a long time.. especially to the US firearms rights bodies like the NFA..

Over restriction to everything in this country is causing a lot of the grief and sadly it comes out as violence and anger.. Be nice if people could just be peaceful to each other and get along without being abusive. But alas, that only happens in groups with at least one common interest.