Towing Caravan with TD5 Series 2 Auto with SLS

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Originally Posted by disco2hse

The commonality then is that those who have towed with more than 200kg on their tow bar have had stability issues and those that tow with less don't. You do the math and make your own decisions.

As I said earlier, the rig I tow is much larger and heavier than the rig concerned and I have no issues.

The problems are too much weight on the tow bar and poor weight distribution.

Sometimes in life you just have to accept that what you are doing is wrong and you need to make the changes yourself. The addition of further technical devices to `fix to problem' only moves the problem elsewhere. That means when that solution fails the results will be more catastrophic.

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The accepted norm and one most caravan builders use in Australia when building a van is around the 10% mark for a recommended ball weight. You tow a boat and trailer combo that is 3 ton with a 150 kg ball weight which givs you a 5% ball weight. There's nothing wrong with that if it works for you.

Maybe your right and every caravan builder in this country is wrong. I note that in the UK they build vans with very low ball weights as well. Those vans often in Australia are considered to be very unstable because they tend to bounce around on Australian roads.

Another thing if you could please explain if LR rate a D2 Disco with a maximum ball weight of 250 kg then why would you think that 200 plus kilo's is to much of a ball weight to safely tow with a D2?

I don't know where you live in NZ but being from the Shakey Isles myself I know that no where is to far away from the water so I'd be surprized if you drive more then a hour on average to put your boat in and possibly much less and I bet in most cases you do it on better then average roads compard to here.

Maybe towing 3 ton with a 150 kg ball weight might have a slightly different feel to it on some of our roads, especially the dirt roads that we tow on here. Plus last time I was over there I noticed that you still don't have 26 metre long B doubles screaming past you over the speed limit on the feeways.


I might be summing this up wrong but maybe its a case of horses for courses.

cheers,
Terry

OK, after doing some reading and checking things on the car I see that the confusion for me was that the tow hitch (photo attached) had rather strange measures on it. These are set, obviously, to limit the range in which people may get themselves into danger.

Reading the manual, 250kg is achievable for vehicles with SLS provided there is up to 7% of the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) added to the nose weight, otherwise the limit is 150kg. That means that, as has been advised, a weight distribution hitch will do the job or in the absence of that, moving weight in the vehicle forward. I learned something B)

But, on a different note, and its a shame people have to resort to making personal attacks on these forums to try to get their message across. NZ is longer than you might think, it does actually take longer than one hour to drive its length. And, most roads are not straight and are uneven, so if weight distribution is not achieved correctly then the effects can be, and are often, distrastrous. While there are no roads trains here, that is only one of the causes of swaying, and their absence does not therefore mean there will be no swaying of trailers on vehicles. :rolleyes:

We can quote specs and stats all we like. They symptoms described by the OP seem to indicate overloading in front of the axles - of course it might be something else entirely, but why not start with something simple before jumping into load levelling systems? Especially when others are towing the same weight with the same spec vehicle and having no problems...

Have a great week everyone! :)

If any of you have read the British research conducted by a university, the major cause of instability in vans was found to be the weight distribution in the van.

If the weight was concentrated near the ends of the van it would couse a "dumbell" effect and exacerbate swaying and instability. They recommended that the heaviest components eg water tanks be sited at or near the axle .

AFAIR they found ball weight to be less of a problem and recommended between 6and 8% ball weight , based on experiments where other variables were excluded.
I am afraid I would have NO confidence in the ability of Australian caravan manufaturers to manage weight distribution.

I have a friend who is /was both a major caravan dealer and still is a loss adjuster contracting to insurance companies. Some of teh stories he tells are hair raising.

Bailey of Bristol - Caravan Stability Studies
Regards Philip A

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Originally Posted by disco2hse

But, on a different note, and its a shame people have to resort to making personal attacks on these forums to try to get their message across. NZ is longer than you might think, it does actually take longer than one hour to drive its length. And, most roads are not straight and are uneven, so if weight distribution is not achieved correctly then the effects can be, and are often, distrastrous. While there are no roads trains here, that is only one of the causes of swaying, and their absence does not therefore mean there will be no swaying of trailers on vehicles. :rolleyes:

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Whose having a go at who?

For your information I'm a Kiwi from Auckland myself, I have spent half of my life here but I return to NZ on a fairly regular basis so if I want to comment on the state of roads in either country then I'll do so and it will be from a position of personal experience and knowledge.

I never said it took an hour to drive from one end of the country to the other so please don't misquote me especially in such a belittling manner.

As I said in my first reply to your original comment I'm also from the Shakey Isles which you obvioulsy didn't pick up on even thought its a fairly common in country nick name for the land of the long white cloud. There is a reason why it is often called the Shakey Iles just ask anyone in Christchurch right now and I'm sure they will explain.

I have read previously on here comments and seen pictures from Disco owners in NZ asking questions about the Pommy tow hitches that supposedly come fitted standard on NZ Disco's, which I don't believe are common here. Maybe because you get the daft weak looking Pommy one peice tow hitches that is why you have a lower maximum tow ball weight. The LR standard fitment ones that come fitted here definately do say 250 kg not 150 kg.

Further more for your information I wasn't actually having a go at you the first time around.


Regards,
Terry

See what I mean?

Some people just have to make it personal.

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Whose having a go at who?


[blah blah blah]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by TerryO

I have read previously on here comments and seen pictures from Disco owners in NZ asking questions about the Pommy tow hitches that supposedly come fitted standard on NZ Disco's, which I don't believe are common here. Maybe because you get the daft weak looking Pommy one peice tow hitches that is why you have a lower maximum tow ball weight. The LR standard fitment ones that come fitted here definately do say 250 kg not 150 kg.

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Take a closer look at the photo ;)

And what I said, not what you read. :P

My coil D2 has the factory LR heavy duty tow hitch, it's rating is 3.500kg maximum tow weight and maximum 250kg ball weight, my understanding is that all D2s in Australia are rated to this.

AND

just for anyone that would like to know, in England, if you have the factory heavy duty tow hitch with the factory electric braking system, you can tow a 4000kg tamdem axle trailer.

My advice is to try and reduce your ball weight and also try and change where you put things in the trailer, having weight in the wrong place can cause instability in the trailer.

Baz.

Guys,


Regardless of what the well meaning on this thread might believe, road traffic authorities and caravan manufacturers around the world state that for stability the towball weight should be between 8 and 15 % of the total mass of the towed trailer/caravan. In Australia the road traffic authorities recommend 10%.

Those of us who actually do tow caravans extensively can confirm from experience that the greatest contributor to instability is too little weight on the towball. That is, getting it below 7% or so. This can be easily demonstrated experimentally as the University of Bath in the UK has done as the world's leading caravan stabilty research organistion, or with your own caravan if you are brave enough and prepared to take the risk.

As for the D2, while it is rated to tow 3,500 kg, its towball limit is 250 kg, which in effect limits the ideal max caravan weight to around 2.5 tonnes. We have towed 2.7 tonnes for around 30,000 km, with and without a WDH, and will never again tow without one, despite the D2 owners handbook's recommendation against their use.

We have just upgraded to an LC200 in large part because of residual instability with the D2. It just isn't heavy enough or long enough in the wheelbase to tow 2.7 tonnes with the margin of safety that I am comfortable with. Given an upset, the van will just take the Disco where it wants to go regardless of driver inputs (at least until you hit the emergency manual caravan brakes to stabilise the rig again). Anyone who has experienced that will know that it is not a pleasant experience to be suddenly using two or more lanes of road within a second or two of the upset and rapidly approaching jack-knifing and/or rollover. Sadly many have their dreams wrecked because they could not get the manual brakes applied in time to stop the accident, and the most common response after the accident is along the lines of "but it was fine until then".

For what it is worth, in my experience with two large vans, a D2 with 2.7 tonnes on the back and with around 250 kg on the ball is marginal even with WDH. With less weight on the ball or without WDH it is not that good.

The report mentioned above is quite long and a boring read,,

and not really indicative of Ozzy conditions(vehicles/tow weight)

I am happy you are still on the road Grum;).
any pics of the new combo?:wasntme:

and I agree it has a lot to do with wheelbase---

LC=2850
D2=2540

I know and agree that wheel base is important when it comes to towing but I reckon so is rear overhang and while on a D2 is not that much more then a D1 I have often wondered if a D1 with less overhang would be a more stable tow vehicle then the D2?

While this might have no correlation at all the new 2 door Prado which looks far shorter then its big brother 4 door Prado has a higher maximum tow weight.

Just a thought...

cheers,
Terry