Towing Caravan with TD5 Series 2 Auto with SLS

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Originally Posted by Grumndriva

Guys,


Regardless of what the well meaning on this thread might believe, road traffic authorities and caravan manufacturers around the world state that for stability the towball weight should be between 8 and 15 % of the total mass of the towed trailer/caravan. In Australia the road traffic authorities recommend 10%.

Those of us who actually do tow caravans extensively can confirm from experience that the greatest contributor to instability is too little weight on the towball. That is, getting it below 7% or so. This can be easily demonstrated experimentally as the University of Bath in the UK has done as the world's leading caravan stabilty research organistion, or with your own caravan if you are brave enough and prepared to take the risk.

As for the D2, while it is rated to tow 3,500 kg, its towball limit is 250 kg, which in effect limits the ideal max caravan weight to around 2.5 tonnes. We have towed 2.7 tonnes for around 30,000 km, with and without a WDH, and will never again tow without one, despite the D2 owners handbook's recommendation against their use.

We have just upgraded to an LC200 in large part because of residual instability with the D2. It just isn't heavy enough or long enough in the wheelbase to tow 2.7 tonnes with the margin of safety that I am comfortable with. Given an upset, the van will just take the Disco where it wants to go regardless of driver inputs (at least until you hit the emergency manual caravan brakes to stabilise the rig again). Anyone who has experienced that will know that it is not a pleasant experience to be suddenly using two or more lanes of road within a second or two of the upset and rapidly approaching jack-knifing and/or rollover. Sadly many have their dreams wrecked because they could not get the manual brakes applied in time to stop the accident, and the most common response after the accident is along the lines of "but it was fine until then".

For what it is worth, in my experience with two large vans, a D2 with 2.7 tonnes on the back and with around 250 kg on the ball is marginal even with WDH. With less weight on the ball or without WDH it is not that good.

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Thanks for your comments. I am not clear tho as to your D2 towing experience, is it a D2 with SLS?

I am yet to have explained the reason for the warning by LR re using WDH.

Do you know if the 250kg ball weight is because of the SLH or the Towbar capacity?

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Originally Posted by disco2hse

See what I mean?

Some people just have to make it personal.

Blah blah blah



Take a closer look at the photo ;)

And what I said, not what you read. :P

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My friend there is only person here acting in a childish manner and making it personal and that is not me.

It would seem that you take it personally when someone provides the right information after you have given others the wrong advice.

cheers,
Terry

Marnie - from memory Grum's set up was a coil sprung D2 with Firestone or similar air bags in the rear. Its what I have - 02 D2 with Coilrites. I run the poundage's up for towing my 2 tonn boat - dual axle mechanical override brakes (well its 1.95 fully loaded). I have towed it on long distances over rough and bouncy terrain. The bags make a big difference but are not a full substitute for load bars. But being a boat load bars are not required in this case. With several hundred kg on the ball she does not sway. The D2 was made infinitely better to tow with when I went up a size profile and a size in width and into a HD LT tyre carcass...no more squirm. I would not like to go above 2 tonn - 2.5 tonn max with mine. If you want to hear funny my 95 D1 is rated in the handbook to 4,000kg.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by robbotd5

150kgs? Then why does it say maximum nose load of 250kgs stamped on my towbar?
Regards
Robbo

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Series 1 are 150, ser 250 make sure you put an auto cooler on it as well. They have a habit of breaking the flex plate, which is claimed to be due to over heating of the TC.

Thanks, but aren't we talking about 2 different animals? Coils with air bag inserts is not Self levelling suspension...or have I got it wrong?
You comment re tyres is very interesting, because the trailer expert bloke who spoke to Hayman Reece and fitted the friction sway controller hit the roof when he saw my tyres saying they were too flexible in the sidewalls, they are apparently to standard specs. I bought the D2 second hand with new tyres fitted by the dealer.

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Originally Posted by ozscott

edited... The D2 was made infinitely better to tow with when I went up a size profile and a size in width and into a HD LT tyre carcass...no more squirm. I would not like to go above 2 tonn - 2.5 tonn max with mine. If you want to hear funny my 95 D1 is rated in the handbook to 4,000kg.

Cheers

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Scott its interesting that you say it tows better with the largerer L/T tyres.

I have only towed our caravan with 265x70x16 L/T Bridgy 694's on the D2 and wondered if the taller then standard tyres even though they are L/T spec might be a bit tall and adding to the instability.

cheer,
Terry

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Originally Posted by Marnie

Thanks, but aren't we talking about 2 different animals? Coils with air bag inserts is not Self levelling suspension...or have I got it wrong?
You comment re tyres is very interesting, because the trailer expert bloke who spoke to Hayman Reece and fitted the friction sway controller hit the roof when he saw my tyres saying they were too flexible in the sidewalls, they are apparently to standard specs. I bought the D2 second hand with new tyres fitted by the dealer.

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Marnie yes your right coils springs with air bags is not SLS so is not self leveling.

Interesting about the tyres, if correct it might make it hard as in my case if you want to tow a van off road and then be able to use the vehicle for more serious off road use once there.

cheers,
Terry

Gents - yes of course the SLS is self levelling and the aftermarket bags are not. In terms of tyres my heavier than standard duty Pirelli Scorpions used to squirm like mad and it was disconcerting towing heavy with them. My D1 had the same tyres but in LT and were much better. In the D2 i ditched the Scorpions and went to Maxxis Bravo 751 LT that have much better side wall strength and much much heavier load rating. These tyres smack of the original XPC pattern but are just so good at towing and of course off road work.

Cheers
PS. My brother is a Maxxis re-seller (in a 4WD mod business) and comp truck competitor and he raved over them as did many of his clients which is why I got them. No regrets, excellent wear and handling and noise, and will get the same again next time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozscott

Gents - yes of course the SLS is self levelling and the aftermarket bags are not. In terms of tyres my heavier than standard duty Pirelli Scorpions used to squirm like mad and it was disconcerting towing heavy with them. My D1 had the same tyres but in LT and were much better. In the D2 i ditched the Scorpions and went to Maxxis Bravo 751 LT that have much better side wall strength and much much heavier load rating. These tyres smack of the original XPC pattern but are just so good at towing and of course off road work.

Cheers
PS. My brother is a Maxxis re-seller (in a 4WD mod business) and comp truck competitor and he raved over them as did many of his clients which is why I got them. No regrets, excellent wear and handling and noise, and will get the same again next time.

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Got Bravos on both my Disco's D1 & D2, little noisy at abot 60-70km other than that they seem sweet.

soooo--

A D1 on 18's
may
tow better than a D2 on 16's
(not withstanding the towball weight)
????