Thread: The Ultimate FC

Wow what a bit of kit.
I took the thing for a bit of a drive today as much as I could in the private road and car park at work.
I managed to get the air system up and working so I now have full brakes, horn and wipers.
That success demanded the thing should be driven.
The area is all concrete and the only challange I could find was a median strip which the stolly takes flat out and it is dispointing as there is just nothing and I do mean nothing felt in the vehicle,,,,it doesnt even dip or pitch.
The suspension in this thing with the big 1400 tyres makes the vehicle.
I learnt if you are on full lock on concrete doing a 180 and change gear and plant the foot the no spin diff locks and the steering wheel wants to spin out of your hands and it gives a jump.
I found I was getting only 1/3 throttle as the hydraulic accelerator must have a air lock.
While I was hard pressed to stretch its legs with the throttle the way it is in 5 th gear the vehicle gives me the impression it will be happy at 60 kph.
First gear seems low enough for the slow off road work and 2nd for normal starting and off road stuff..........a bit like the set up on a humber or champ miltiary vehicles.
Back to the grind stone to find some throttle !
Check these out.
the 3 vids are of prototypes or early mark one stalwarts ON 6 WHEELS ANYWHERE - British Pathe

TRUCK FOR LAND AND SEA - British Pathe
ALVIS STALWART AMPHIBIAN - British Pathe

Just somemore useless information.
I had time to day to measure up the cargo bay on the stolly.
On a standard stolly without crane it measures 12ft long and just under 8ft wide.
This lenght can be extended by 2ft if the load is under 7ft wide and can take hot radiator blast.
The rear tail gate is 7 ft wide.
A standard 101 landrover can be carried by a stolly on land or water.(101 is 12ft long)
The crane model loses just over 20 inches in the middle front of the cargo space due to the up right of the crane.
It would just be possible to carry a 101 landy in a crane Stolly as the radiator blast under the 101s rear wouldnt worry it too much.
My 101 will not fit as it is fitted with bull bar and rear jerry can holders.
It would fit with the rear tailgate in the half openned position...ie no swimming.
I also measured up the cargo area of the 6x6 1945 studebaker i have and its cargo area is 7ft x 12 ft.
I know I can carry my 101 inch wheel base CJ6 jeep in the back of the studebaker with a slight over hang.
I conclude any jeep or short wheel base landrover can be carried in the back of a Stolly and swum around the place with room to spare.
It is of note the crane can lift any of these vehicles or on non crane models the vehicle can be driven on though the rear tail gate provided they are under 7ft wide.
The cargo area on the studebaker should be exactly the same as a WW2 DUKW.
The DUKW(duck) was rated for 2.5 tons in water and land .
It has a very slightly smaller load area and no drop down tail gate or sides for ease of loading.
The stolly carries 3tons on water and and 4 tons on land(crane model), but the duck is a better sea boat in the fact it has extra lenght and is a drier boat all round.( the Stolly has slightly more free board unloaded, but less loaded)
The duck weights about 8 tons.
The crane stolly weights about 11 tons
The normal stolly is 9 tons
The duck has about 100 HP with the govenor removed for its weight.
The stolly has about 230 HP with govenor on and little chance of getting anymore without blowing the motor.
The ducks land speed is 50 mph and 8 knots in water.
The stollys land speed is 40mph and 6 knots in water.
The Stolly has much better off road performance than the duck except for very soft mud or sand.
The duck is 30 ft long with large over hangs and is the reason for its better water speed.
The stolly is about 20ft long with a deeper daught and with its twin steerable water jets can turn in its own lenght very well in water.
Low gear low range on the duck is 110 to 1
Low gear on the stolly is 103 to 1 turning bigger tyres.
The stolly was a english replacement for the WW2 duck, give or take abit,
They for a short time served side by side in the english forces.
My progress today was to get the interior light and amber safetly rotary light working working.
I know the winch gearbox has no oil in it and it will be interesting to see what it is like when I dig my way down to that compartment of the hull.
I managed to get high and low beam working....the dipper switch and alot of other stuff is just frozen up though being stored for a very long period of time in the weather.
The main mechanical stuff like motor ,gearbox , steering is in really good nick.
Storing the thing out side with the hatches closed means the condensation builds up inside over time with no escape.
I will need to drop off the wheel stations in time to replace the rubber gators over the tracta joints and stop any oil leaks there to stop the rubber rotting.
It is a straight forward job , but heavy.
The vehicle can be used and if fact swum as is, the gatters reduce the risk of water getting where it shouldnt.
I am learning al sorts of things like the difference between a tracta joint and a CV joint.
The two air operated side wipers are now working.....historic plates here I come .

So, will we see it at Corowa?

Two more vids to checkout.
A Stolly can pull.......
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnvHW-rapSY&NR=1]YouTube - alvis stalwart (stolly) pulling a 55 ton chieftain tank[/ame]
A stolly can climb, but that short wheel base makes it a hand full.
It is interesting to note that low gear is reached by going across the box and can be hard to catch it quickly if needed if in a hurry.
The gear shift pattern is completely odd and reversed to normal vehicles.
Note this Stolly is converted to a Cummings diesel motor.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEuDRu2lBfQ&feature=related]YouTube - alvis stalwart (stolly) @ KORC going up 12/04/09[/ame]

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

So, will we see it at Corowa?

I think it would cost about 1 k each way from Nowra to transport it.(minimum cost and with wide load and over height problems and can only be transported by itself on a trailer or truck during daylight hours in NSW )
In its current condition and the fact it would have to prove its self on shorter trips before I would even think of driving it there.
Not this year....even though I would very much like to.
getting time off work is a problem too.
It is interesting what the english restorers who rallie these things actively say about driving them on the road.
The drive set up on hard surfaces is not a problem and hundreds of miles a year can be covered.
Stollys break tracta joints and bevel boxes cause they are the only vehicles in the Alvis 6x6 family to............
Carry loads off road with drive often concentrated on one pair of wheels.
Carry 5 tons, or pull 10 tons.
The only Alvis 6x6 to have a normal clutch witch can be dropped by the operator(the others have fluid coupling and preselector box)
Have its hubs, tracta joints and bevel boxes subject to water.
Only Alvis 6x6 to run larger 1400x20 tyres.
The stolly has a locking diff the other 6x6 alvis do not .( It works on hard surfaces if you plant your foot the wrong way during a hard corner)
Have civie owners who may or may not up keep the drive system and hull water proof fittings..( the vehicle will still operate with water in the bevel boxes and tracta joints for a while)
The hub/ tracta/bevel lube system on latter Stolly models is very good and is different to the Saracen and Saladin vehicles and because of this I can see some owners letting the set up run dry by not fixing oil leaks and just rely on the lube tank to top everything up.( I found this system very low on oil in my stolly because of one oil leak)
The tracta joint angle on a unloaded Stolly is 45 degrees as the suspension was designed to drop with load so they run straight.(the other alvis 6x6 vehicles ran mostly constant loads)
At a 45 degree angle the tracta joints wear.
This can be fixed by lowering the torsion bars so the Tracta joints run straight in a unloaded condition as they usually do as a restored vehicle and they have plently of ground clearence to do this.
To run the vehicle off the sides of the road to unwind the drive I can see doing no good as any slight difference in tyres or cornering will wind it up straight away again.
After playing with my Stolly on a hard concrete surface and going full lock backwards and forwards to get the thing in the shed the drive set up the vehicle appears not to be too much worried about wind up.
The stalwart is much bigger in the flesh than a Sarasen / saladin etc than it looks in the pics because the bigger tyres hide the size compared to the other Alvis 6x6 vehicles and that is why it is abit harder to transport.

A Stollie is what it is,It's been out of production for well over 20 years, hasn't really been replaced with anything similar, and I suppose should be appreciated for its unique combination of all round capabilities. But it would be interesting to speculate how much better it could have been with a bit of redesign such as a more powerful deisel engine, 2spd t/case,proper lockable differential,slightly longer wheelbase etc. I was a bit surprised that the gear ratio of 103:1 was so tall for what is a heavy, large tyred vehicle powered by a relatively small engine.
I did some rough calculations to estimate tractive effort(drawbar pull) comparing it to a 101 LandRover to get some perspective of the Stollies pulling power.This does not account for frictional losses which would be much greater in the Stollie due to more complex transmission. The Stollies 14.00x20 tyres are guessed to be 48'' dia, the 101s 9.00x16'' at 35'' dia.

Stollie 101Engine torque=280lbft
101Engine torque=210lbft
Stollie Gear ratio=103:1
101 Gear ratio=75:1
Stollie Tyre radius=24''
101 Tyre radius=17.5''
StollieTractive effort=14420lbs
101 Tractive effort=10880lbs

A standard 101 weighs around 4400lbs unladen. tractive effort exceeds weight by a factor of over 2.44.

A standard Stollie weighs around 20160lbs unladen. This weight exceeds the tractive effort by a factor of over 1.4
I could be wrong, but from experience I can forsee quite a few cross country situations where the stollies tractive effort would be insufficient to keep the wheels turning.
Wagoo.

Wagoo you would be right mostly.
The last Stolly came off the production line in 1971 and the 1st mk1 in 1962 with prototypes from 1958.....so they are 40 years or older.
Gearing seems to be a weak point, but they have done the best they could with the 5 speeds.
Diesel conversions are a real problem with the stolly because of the transmission.
No 300 hp diesels wants to rev to 3750 rpm for long periods of time.
The transmission is just so special and low profile nothing else can fit or do the job because of the top mounted Pto drives.
Two factory Perkins Pacer diesels were made with the idea of converting the fleet.
The Pacer diesel could rev hard enough ?
Finding any sort of motor to replace the very flat dry sump Rolls is a problem too.
The best set up would be a longer Alloy hull with extra wheel set and drive disconnects between wheel sets, two speed transfercase, 5 speed main box and 350 hp diesel........one can only dream.
As I understand the thing ,it is all straight forward to work on.
The body design and most features are very good and modern for its age.
What takes time working on the thing is the need to climb up and down to get a spanner or go from cabin and climb over the back to the engine bay to see if some thing is working.
I know the biggest problem using a gearbox with a low gear and not a low range set of gears is the lack of flexability of using the advailible engine power to keep the vehicle moving.( like the champ and Humber 1 ton )
The Studebaker tipper we used at the family farm I remmber got loaded with 10 tons and it ran out of poke with 87hp and 110 to one in low/low going up a moderate hill so I know where your coming from .