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After pumping up the clutch keep the pedal held down, then undo where the pipe goes onto the clutch master cylinder, if there is any air in the line, it should be near that point and the pressure plate returning should push the air out, repeat if necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuee
All the best for the New Year. :spudnikparty:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread...74#post2056174
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Why cant they put that in the workshop manual :censored: I've been reading up for a while trying to find something like that... Thanks for the heads up though, I'll give that a shot tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brute
This makes sense as it sounds like the air is trapped in the MC (i.e that's where I hear the odd squishy sound coming from, not the slave cylinder end). Another thing to try tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklearthur
A happy new year to you all too!
Cheers,
Stu
Stu,
Just been looking at the brake shuttle valve. It is the same valve as the Rangy but plumbed different, the only conventional way I can see to bleed them is to do a front and back at the same time.
Or I have a vacuum pump you could borrow which just sucks oil through from the master cylinder to the bleed nipple without pumping the pedal. Would probably do the clutch easier too.
cheers
Ian
Thanks Ian. I didn't end up touching the 101 on New Years day, had breakfast at the folks house and sat by their pool most of the day instead. I've made the call to remove the wedding as a deadline for he 101 now, too many things still to be done and I don't want to rush them after doing everything just how I want up to this point in time. Its become more of a chore than a fun hobby over the last few weeks.
I've got a few things to try on the weekend but I think I will have to take you up on the offer to borrow the vacuum bleeder. I've read a few posts on the club forum that some people have only had success with those when bleeding a new system.
With the shuttle valve I want to see if I can take the bleed valve off and push the valve back and open up the front circuit and let it gravity bleed out to at least pressurise the system up first.
The clutch still has me beat. I tried bleeding air out of the top fitting but that didn't work. I can feel it pushing air but thers is the odd time where it seems to get fluid and I have a bit of feel in the pedal. Hopefully this is one the vacuum bleeder can do.
Cheers,
Stu
Had another look at the brakes this morning. Tried resetting the shuttle valve by cracking the rear circuit and pumping the pedal. I got nothing out of this. Thought I'd do some further troubleshooting and cracked the front line into the shuttle valve and was surprised to see no fluid come out.
Cracked the front line directly on the master cylinder and its dry as a whistle. No fluid coming from the reservoir into the cylinder I just need to figure out why. At least I know the intermediate seal is holding up :eek:
I'm reading up on the tipping valve on the below link and wondering if that's not been setup properly or blocked or jammed:
Brake Overview & Theory
Going by the 101 workshop manual the master cylinders look very much the same. Maybe the return springs are not strong or long enough to push the primary piston back against the tipping valve?
It looks like the master cylinder may need to come out to check it out properly. Not going to be a tidy job that's for sure. At least it looks easy to access and remove.
Any thoughts on easy ways to get fluid though without pulling the thing out? At least the stress is gone now. Also going fishing this arvo for some flathead in the river :D
We were working on a Series 1 that was being difficult so we got a spare reservoir cap and put a schrader valve in it and used the air compressor to blow the fluid through...
It was much better than the vacuum suck system we tried to use.
Edit: we only used a very low pressure - no point blowing a reservoir full through in seconds ;)
Hi Stuee
I have never had a problem bleeding the brakes and clutch on the 101.
For some reason some people have trouble doing so.
Ensure fluid reservoirs are full.
Crack fluid line at outlet of master cylinder.
Use slow steady full length strokes and get fluid though master cylinder.
Don't pump quickly or use short strokes.
Tighten fitting at back of master cylinder
Ensure master cylinder push rod has free play.........ie adjusted correctly.
Open slave cylinder/wheel cylinder bleeder.
Walk away and come back a hour later.......if no fluid at bleeder come back the next day.
gravity will push fluid through if given time.
When fluid is at bleeder and fluid level in reservoir has dropped bleed normally using slow steady full strokes of the pedal.
If gravity is not pushing fluid though...........there is a component problem.
This is my next port of call. I was hoping after I spent an exuberant amount of money getting everything overhauled it should just work without me having to adjust it as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by 101 Ron
From what little I've found on adjusting the pushrod on the brake master cylinder, the master cylinder itself needs to be removed. unlike the clutch there is no adjustment at the connection to the pedal. If I get a chance Ill get to this tomorrow, but Ill need to drain a fair bit of fluid so it doesn't get messy.
After getting over my hangover from last night (I still don't know how we won the cricket!) I made another start on the brakes. Drained the brake fluid out and pulled the master-cylinder off. Master works just fine, can blow through with the pistons at rest position and blocks flow with only the slightest push on the piston so its working as it should.
Pic showing the assembly and adjustment nut:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...014/01/682.jpg
From this pic you can almost see how in the rest position the push rod will be pushing the MC piston.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...014/01/683.jpg
Pre-adjustment:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...014/01/684.jpg
Post-adjustment:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...014/01/685.jpg
I tested it had enough clearance by holding the master in place and blowing through a piece of reservoir hose. I adjusted it back until I could blow through the hose with the master cylinder in its mounting place. I also then checked the clearance by pressing the brake pedal a few times to make sure it would return to the open potion at rest. All appears to be going okay now.
Only thing is now is the retainer ring for the push rod is busted as it pulls out freely now (to the rubber seal anyway). Technically it shouldn't affect operation as the MC spring will keep the push rod seated in position but its a bit dodgy. Unfortunately, to replace it involves splitting the servo so another $400 for an overhaul. No thankyou.
Again this guys website was very useful:
Overhauling Brake Servo
With any luck I should be able to get the MC mounted back on lines plumbed in and bleed the brakes!
edit* I'm really peeved at the brake overhaul place. I spent over $1100 getting all the brake bits overhauled. By supplying the master-cylinder and servo together and getting both overhauled I thought any adjustment should have been sorted by the time I picked it all up. The only plus out of all this is I now have a much better understanding of the brake system.
On Friday I dropped past auto one and picked up one of these:
Product Catalogue :: Mechanical Service :: Brake Service Tools :: 500ml Vacuum Brake Bleeder Kit - SP Tools Australia
I was originally looking at a new lens for my camera but the boss said no so I got this instead :twisted:
Brakes are bled and working fine now. Clutch is still a no go. I bled it some more with the new bleeder and still nothing.
Checking things with a clear head now when I press the pedal down the level in the reservoir rises, when I release the pedal the level drops back down again. This is telling me that the MC may not be working properly and not sealing the inlet when pressed down so rather than push the slave cylinder it will just pump back up the reservoir. Either that or theres some adjustment that's out again. The pedal appears to be adjusted correctly according to the manual, to make sure the pushrod was actually engaging the MC I removed the pedal spring, pressed the pedal and the MC pushed the pedal back into position by itself.
Next check was remove the slave cylinder and get the boss to pump the clutch pedal. There was zero movement in the salve which re-affirms what I thought above.
From what I can tell from the manual and online the only real adjustment is the pedal which at the moment I'm happy with. I wonder if again the brake shop has not done something right on the MC or if I've missed something obvious.
Any thoughts on this one?