Thread: HELP! Anyone raised a PUMA? Big TROUBLE!!!

Hey Povman - just found this thread and thought I'd provide some input! I've got the Puma double cab ute that was at the Defender Day a month or so ago (think I met you, but there was quite a few that I met on the day!) which has got a minor lift on it. However....when I first got the car I took it off to ARB (Hoppers Crossing) to get a 2.5" OME suspension kit on it - plus a few other things. Thankfully the guys at ARB rang me before installing it to advise that I would run into a whole bunch of problems if I was to raise the vehicle and that they simply wouldn't touch it. They also did a bit of research and found a local chap to confirm this advising that it affected the cardan joints and to rectify it would cost a couple of grand (on top of the lift). I said "thanks" and then contacted a few other suppliers as although I wasn't necessarily after a big lift, I was after something to compensate for the big muddies, bullbar, and winch etc. I eventually ended up going to Opposite Lock in Melton who consulted one of their franchisees in W.A who just happens to have a couple of Defenders and knew all about the problem. They advised lifting it to a max of 1" and installing heavy duty shocks in the front to compensate for the bar and winch. I did this back in April and have had no problems since.

I really feel for you as the 'upgrades' should be a positive thing. At the end of the day ARB should be held responsible as they are the "experts" and have been advised of the problems associated with lifting later model Defenders. Perhaps call the guys at Hoppers Crossing to get their opinion on a lift and then quote it back to head office!!!!

Good luck mate!

Jon

My recent experience with ARB is that they are not experts. Just salesmen who like many others are just selling a product.

It really depends which ARB shop you walk into and who you get on the day.

In my case I was initially told that ARB did not make a bar for the new Defender! True. I had to prove they did and we went on from there. The shop (or to be fair, the salesman) had obviously never sold/fitted a Defender bar before.

At the end of the day, I am happy with the install.

OK for you guys and gals in the eastern states where you seem to have lots of shops and you can pick and choose your suppliers, but in sleepy old Adelaide ...


.

Just found this thread - heres my experience - my Puma has done 10,000km and has had ARB OME 50mm lifted suspension from day 1, drove out of workshop and did 4,000km thru Vic including 800km off road in high country and a bit more in Grampians withour a single vibration but terrific ride and articulation. Got home found rear pinion seal leaking took to LR to fix - they said it was caused by OME suspension but would fix once for free. Now I have vibration. I think they may have stuffed up pre-load as they had also not done up the nuts on the brake end of the prop shaft either so anythings possible. Vehicle is off to engineers Monday to provide written report that suspension lift cannot affect pinion seal and back to fight with LR as its leaking again.... Whats with Puma, already had new diff fitted and brake vacuum pump all under warranty. Wish I'd kept the old 300Tdi in some ways except for the great pulling power of the new engine. Oh yeah - the lift is less than 50mm in practice due to the load I always carry in the rear and the bullbar and winch up front.

Originally Posted by JohnR

Interesting the height change from diff to transfer case is greater for you and it's over a shorter distance ???
105mm height change over 695mm a 75mm longer prop shaft.
120mm height change over 620mm
Cheers,

I know. Thats why I am suprised this is an issue!

Rough sums say 8.56degrees on yours and 10.95degrees on mine

I wonder if the gear box and transfer case is angled to the rear on the puma?

ETA, Ii have just double checked my measurements and they are as I stated last night.

Originally Posted by JaYwALk

Hey Povman - just found this thread and thought I'd provide some input! I've got the Puma double cab ute that was at the Defender Day a month or so ago (think I met you, but there was quite a few that I met on the day!) which has got a minor lift on it. However....when I first got the car I took it off to ARB (Hoppers Crossing) to get a 2.5" OME suspension kit on it - plus a few other things. Thankfully the guys at ARB rang me before installing it to advise that I would run into a whole bunch of problems if I was to raise the vehicle and that they simply wouldn't touch it. They also did a bit of research and found a local chap to confirm this advising that it affected the cardan joints and to rectify it would cost a couple of grand (on top of the lift). I said "thanks" and then contacted a few other suppliers as although I wasn't necessarily after a big lift, I was after something to compensate for the big muddies, bullbar, and winch etc. I eventually ended up going to Opposite Lock in Melton who consulted one of their franchisees in W.A who just happens to have a couple of Defenders and knew all about the problem. They advised lifting it to a max of 1" and installing heavy duty shocks in the front to compensate for the bar and winch. I did this back in April and have had no problems since.

I really feel for you as the 'upgrades' should be a positive thing. At the end of the day ARB should be held responsible as they are the "experts" and have been advised of the problems associated with lifting later model Defenders. Perhaps call the guys at Hoppers Crossing to get their opinion on a lift and then quote it back to head office!!!!

Good luck mate!

Jon

Jon, thanks for your input. Very interesting that Hoppers Crossing were aware of the probs and ARB head office failed to research this themselves! You would think a massive company would do their research for this very reason to cover their own arses and that it would be a standard operating procedure company wide!!!
I personally believe (and this is my opinion only) that they DID know about the double cardan needing to be installed but failed to quote me on this product in the first place and tried to get away without installing it because it wasn't required on their own test Defender vehicle!
Now as I said, this is my personal opinion and after all the evidence out there which support the correct procedures, this wasn't done and now they are trying very hard to rectify this!

From all the info that you knowledgeable people have given me, which is REALLY appreciated once again, we have been able to point ARB in the direction of Hardy Spicer, which I never even knew of before this whole saga mind you, and they are currently designing a custom double cardan that hopefully will be installed next week and it will be the end of it once and for all!!!! Fingers crossed, and yes I am going to try and get ARB to warrant my driveline for the duration of the car warranty now that it will be voided!! Need it in writing and will see how I go and will let you know.
Cheers,
Povman.

Any Puma's out there want to do the measurements???

Pete, I double check mine this morning as well and I was correct as well?

Maybe Thr night if you bring your car we can hop underneath and compare angles?

I am still stuck as to why one car plays up and not another???? Especially when Povman's car played up without even being driven off road. If it was so boarder line mine would have at least played up off road lifting wheels, big drops etc.

I want to lift mine up so all wheels are off the ground and the CAREFULLY rotate the front shaft and see what it does?

Cheers,

Two links to source double cardan front propshafts:
Lucky8 Llc. - Take the road less traveled...

and
Products stocked and supplied for 4x4 modification at Gwyn Lewis Garage

I have ordered a gwyn kit for my td5 but not with the propshafts, after reading this I may have to change my mind!

Originally Posted by JohnR

Any Puma's out there want to do the measurements???

Pete, I double check mine this morning as well and I was correct as well?

Maybe Thr night if you bring your car we can hop underneath and compare angles?

I am still stuck as to why one car plays up and not another???? Especially when Povman's car played up without even being driven off road. If it was so boarder line mine would have at least played up off road lifting wheels, big drops etc.

I want to lift mine up so all wheels are off the ground and the CAREFULLY rotate the front shaft and see what it does?

Cheers,

They seem to think that mine was right on the border of being out of spec, then once they changed the suspension it was thrown way out of spec! when on the hoist and rotating the front shaft you can physically see the uni rubbing on itself, so check it out on full droop and see how you go..
All the best John and let us know how ya go..
Povman.