Thread: options for springs

DB and Allan,

To retain the rear axle in order to protect Polyairs etal run some HD round webbing of appropriate length from one of the rear shockie bolts (inside chassis rail) down to the inboard side of the trailing arm to axle bolt. Drill through the webbing use panel washers each side and bolt them on.

Steve

Steve, if your shocks are bottoming out now with the sagged springs, fitting lifted springs want change the fact that the shocks can still bottom out, it makes it harder to bottom out but to fix it you need to raise the shock tower or lower the bump stop

Originally Posted by Allan

I changed mine for both reasons, the OME had little down travel so tried the TF's and happy with them re travel and ride both with and without a load.

Ive been recently told that the 110 doesn't dislocate enough with only +2 inch shocks to worry about

but I would not be a happy camper in the Kimberleys to find that this a wrong and incorrect ststement. May have to do likewise, change to standard travel.

Allan

Rubbish...the 110 dislocates enough that you really need relocation cones to relocate the spring otherwise the spring when traveling back to position will get stuck on the hanger....

but more annoyingly then that and if the spring does reseat or you reseat it you will find that the anti roll bar knuckles over on its self lifting the body of the car up on one side....I know because it has happened to me.

If you look at the photo's in the TF write up I did you can see a picture that I took of the dislocating of the spring.

Thanks for that dullbird, I thought it an odd bit of advice at the time. I haven't been using the Puma much off road lately but need it right for upcoming trip.

Allan

Originally Posted by lambrover

Steve, if your shocks are bottoming out now with the sagged springs, fitting lifted springs want change the fact that the shocks can still bottom out, it makes it harder to bottom out but to fix it you need to raise the shock tower or lower the bump stop

Yep, or in fact they'll still bottom out and stuff the shocks anyway....

I've had to rebuild two sets of Koni's because of this, you need to allow at least 20mm compression of the bump stop when working out your shock location. It's surprising how far that big chunk of rubber compresses.
You just can't bang a longer shock in without redoing shock mount location on the front, although you'll get away with it to a small degree on the rear.

And I run LRA 'purple' springs (17" free length, 220lb/in) that replaced the stock 225lb/in 130 HD springs and my bump stops are still polished from on road driving, let alone anything off road.

That initially gave me 117/114mm between the bump stops, it's something closer to 105/100mm these days (about six years later)

Oh, I forgot to add that you can't run the OE anti-roll bar on the front with longer dampers, the front driveshaft crashes into it in droop, and as Dullbird points out the ARB drop links reverse on you too, which is a PITA.
You will also need eitehr slightly longer brake hoses, or some bodgy the chassis mount of the flex line to finagle some extra flex in the line.
I just made up, err, acquired some braided hoses front and rear.

Thanks for your reply guys... appreciate it.

The reason i have bottomed the shocks (or so i think) out at the moment is because the front springs have sagged nearly 50mm, so i have now gone with (but not fitted) the kings as they were available at 'the right price' i'm pretty sure the oem ones would of been close to bottoming. i have 56 lhs 50 rhs at the front between bump stops..

I was thinking about getting longer bump stops as i beleive DB was thinking, but im not sure about the closed length of the Terrafirma big bores over the OEM.. anyone got that detail? maybe i should look when i change the springs!

with new springs making it harder to hit the bump stop will do for now. its just too easy with the 50mm that i have to bottom them out.. (well it feels like it bottoming)

DB.. have you managed to bottom your TF big bores out yet?

Thanks again

Steve

Originally Posted by 5teve

Thanks for your reply guys... appreciate it.
[snip]

with new springs making it harder to hit the bump stop will do for now. its just too easy with the 50mm that i have to bottom them out.. (well it feels like it bottoming)

DB.. have you managed to bottom your TF big bores out yet?

Thanks again

Steve

Steve, I can't emphasise enough that a longer spring of a reasonable rate won't make it harder to hit the bump stop and bottom a shock out.
I hit the bump stops all the time and I'm running over 100mm between them.
The pads on the axle housing are polished !

When I measured up my shockies closed lengths and the bump stops I allowed 15mm compression of the stock bump stop before my Koni's went metal to metal.....
It wasn't enough

I had to order new foot valves, rebound adjusters, seals (obviously) and luckily the pressure tubes could just be flipped otherwise I would've needed two new shock absorbers.

It doesn't take long to pop out your shocks and measure them up, stock closed length is 328mm measured from the base of the pin to the base of the pin (open should be 550mm)
TLC 80 Series Konis roughly measure 370mm closed, so the towers need to be raised 19mm or so to prevent disaster.
I cheated and used a combination of different thickness bushes (half thickness on the damper body side) and only raised the towers 6mm to maximise droop, but that extra 6mm was critical.

OME TLC 80 Series dampers measure 354mm closed, and I believe work in a Land Rover without going metal to metal, so that might give you something to work on too.

Hopefully what you are feeling is bottoming into the bumps stops, our Patrol (standard ride height) has no where near the bump travel of the Defender and so crashes into bumps on the road hard that I sail over unperturbed in the Defender at faster speeds.

Originally Posted by rick130

Steve, I can't emphasise enough that a longer spring of a reasonable rate won't make it harder to hit the bump stop and bottom a shock out.
I hit the bump stops all the time and I'm running over 100mm between them.
The pads on the axle housing are polished !

When I measured up my shockies closed lengths and the bump stops I allowed 15mm compression of the stock bump stop before my Koni's went metal to metal.....
It wasn't enough

I had to order new foot valves, rebound adjusters, seals (obviously) and luckily the pressure tubes could just be flipped otherwise I would've needed two new shock absorbers.

It doesn't take long to pop out your shocks and measure them up, stock closed length is 328mm measured from the base of the pin to the base of the pin (open should be 550mm)
TLC 80 Series Konis roughly measure 370mm closed, so the towers need to be raised 19mm or so to prevent disaster.
I cheated and used a combination of different thickness bushes (half thickness on the damper body side) and only raised the towers 6mm to maximise droop, but that extra 6mm was critical.

OME TLC 80 Series dampers measure 354mm closed, and I believe work in a Land Rover without going metal to metal, so that might give you something to work on too.

Hopefully what you are feeling is bottoming into the bumps stops, our Patrol (standard ride height) has no where near the bump travel of the Defender and so crashes into bumps on the road hard that I sail over unperturbed in the Defender at faster speeds.

Thanks Rick for taking the time to explain further.. and providing the measurements... i'll have a look when i do the springs and measure the shock length.

Its not a biggie if it is hitting the bumpstops to replace them with raised versions... but you are now making me think that maybe i did hit the bump stops rather than bottom the shocks.. measurements will tell!

May have chance to fit the springs this week (if i can get use of the forklift!) so will update you witht the lengths later on!

Any tips on replacing the springs? was going to disconnect shocks lift each end with the forklift supporting the axle with a jack... drop the axle down one side at a time and replace the spring... obviously watching the brake lines..

at the front i am going to replace the turret ring with the disco one.. rubber one... unless anyone thinks its a bad idea? someone on here recommended it.. but basically use the same method.

Thanks again guys

Steve