What are the pros and cons Defender v Puma v Disco3/4

Thanks for your comment. very sound pro's and cons. Especially regarding seating in the fender vs the Puma. This detail is what I'm after. Currently we are expecting our first arrival so perhaps looking to the future the 130 might be the best platform for a family camping wagon due to the cargo space but for shear comfort a D3 or D4 in TD6 or 8 as a daily driver is appealing still.

I note some comment about fitting auto boxes and aftermarket kits such as

Transmission Options | Defender

an auto box would certainly make Sydney traffic easier, I'm living on the Northern Beaches and commuting about 45-60min twice per day.

How is the 6 speed puma manual and has anyone customed an auto set up ?

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Originally Posted by Captain HSE 4.6 2000

In short, it will either be a dedicated bash car and I will use a second car to commute or I will built a dedicated long distance tourer that I will also use as a daily driver. At this stage I don't intend to tow and will likely fit another roof top tent, but I might consider say a 130 with a detachable custom camping module.

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Defenders are good at stuff. Other vehicles are good at other stuff. Decide what you want and then either buy a Defender or some other car.

Significantly different vehicles to make comparison difficult.

I have a 300 Tdi Defender and a Td5 D2a. I think anyone that says that a 300 Tdi defender gets quiter after an hour it is not due to it warming up but your hearing losing some of its range i.e., getting used to it. It comes down to what speed you think is fair to push the defender at but coming off the Hume Fwy after two hours of 110 km/hr driving I found that your hearing had a bit of a ring for a while and this is not the case in more passenger/road biased vehicles like the Disco.

Agree with all that has been said about front and rear seat comfort in defenders prior to the Puma. I have not sat in a Puma to help nor have I experienced the D3/D4.

From everything that has gone up here on this forum the D3/D4 is very capable as an off road vehicle, plenty have taken them up the Cape and other distant places.

Love my defender as an off road vehicle and dirt road tourer and a long term keeper, but if I had the luxury of a lease vehicle I would go the D3/4 knowing that I would be turning it over in 3 years and a few scratches were not going to matter.

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Originally Posted by Captain HSE 4.6 2000

Allen I understand the SVX has leather seats and trim and extra sound proofing (any other distinguishing mods?) and these don't like mud etc, but why wouldn't you use the vehicle off road ? In case you flooded it etc if you got bogged ? (I wouldn't try and sink my P38 either LOL)

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I do use it off road, very much so. I just think, as I grow older, that if I want a full house off road vehicle I would build one, as we used to with race cars ect. If I am on an outback trip that turns to crap and I have no option than to give my SVX ****, then I will. these days I don't look to spend 2 hours bogged, my cardiologist would not like it. Its age related. As an old fart if I had the money to spend again I think i would probably go for the D3, not that I think its not up to the hard task, thay are fantastic off road and use less fuel doing it than my Puma. As a young guy the 90, either TD5 or Puma would be my choice, both look and perform very well and at that age theyve got the look. For resale and all round ability, comfort at speed and pose value, the Puma SVX was a good choice. But on a long hard run in the north west my young bloke still gets out of his D3 a lot less stiff and tired than me.


Allan

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Originally Posted by Captain HSE 4.6 2000

Thanks for your sound advice, I bought a L322 TD6 2004 for the better Half. It's great on the highway and in the odd paddock bog hole. Did you take yours on any serious trips and how did you fair. I'm considering taking it along as a second vehicle to the cape but have concerns about it and creek crossings. . . plus I can change a airbag on a p38 but if you damage a strut on the L322 my understanding is it's replace the hole unit.

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I bought the L322 as a working vehicle with the intentions of it carrying the mantle of my previous well loved P38.

However it quickly became apparent that the L322 was no replacement. Main concern was the 20" wheels with low profile tyres which were simply unsuitable for off road use. My opinion remains that anything bigger than 16" is too big.

There were several other factors though. The L322, particularly with the Jaguar V8 motor, is highly strung and temperamental, and it's not as nimble or manoeuvrable as the P38. As a work vehicle it just did not give peace of mind, or the right image on or off the bitumen.

There was an ever present fear of impending (and costly) doom. Bear in mind that for the same price as a new Supercharged you can buy a small fleet of Defenders. :D A RRS or D4 buys you a couple.

Forget changing airbags. You would not even attempt to repair any modern LR out on the road unless you've bent something mechanically simple & obvious. Generally it's going to be an electrical problem needing main dealer computer diagnosis, software / parts and reprogramming to fix.

My P38's suspension was cactus in low position once simply because height change is locked out when any door is opened. Speaking from experience, that's a big problem if you have a worn out door switch which thinks the door is open. :mad:

When LR do their promotional 'expeditions' you'll notice they take along a Defender or two to carry the spare parts and mechanics. ;)

Bottom line in choosing what to buy is to ask yourself who is paying for the depreciation, maintenance and repair bills if not warranty! In my case that's me and I won't be buying any more luxury landies (I now call them Road Rovers).

If someone else's money is paying and a new car is being provided every year then I would consider the base model D4. I say consider because I've not driven one and it may also prove unsuitable for my needs.

As said in the post above, with age comes experience. You avoid the bogholes if you can drive around them or do it another way. If you look for for trouble you usually will find it one way or another. :D

As has been pointed out there is a huge variety in the comparison and I'm not sure how balanced it is or how easy it is to compare.

It's pretty easy to get a read that the Defender type LRs are more capable off-road than anything else in the range. However, I'm unsure if that's true. If you read the D3/D4/RRS threads there are plenty of guys that are giving theirs some curry. I'm not sure if the limitations are anything more than their car's expense.....in other words, if you didn't mind getting your D3/D4/RRS dented and scratched, you may get a fairer comparison......Not sure....and if there is a capability difference....how much is it really? I don't care really....it's not a tree wee'ing contest, it's about somebody spending big $ on a car that's right for them. If somebody will donate D3s and 4s to get flogged against Deffers...count me in on the trials..just not in mine..LOL!!!!

I've driven lots of Deffers and loved them....but they were military and incredibly spartan.....but that was what they were designed to be like. Recently I did drive my sis-in-laws 130 on her property which has some pretty big steep slippery paddocks....it was a lot of fun but my D4 did it all too....and with no effort.

The D3 is a phenomenal truck and the 3.0L D4 is something else again. There is a lot of noise about tyre limitations (as in size) yet I haven't actually read a report that says "couldn't get my D4 somewhere because of the tyre size"! Not saying it's not the case....just haven't read it. Tyre availabilty is an issue but surely in time that will improve.

I think most of the restrictions, including my own are, "if I take the thing in there it will get dinged"...."how badly do I need to take that track?". In so saying I've got lantana and branch scratches all over the thing but generally they polish out. If I wanted to do hardcore stuff, I'd get a Defender type....due to the cost and the fact dings seem to suit them :D. When I drove military 110s I didn't give a hoot if they got damaged but most of the stuff I did in them, my D4 would gobble up unscathed.

Incidently, I've had mud and sand all through mine.....cleans a treat. Carpets appear high quality and clean easy.....leather is probably better than anything to keep clean and still be comfortable.

Comfort wise, there is just no comparison at all.....drive a D4 before you make any comments (I imagine an RRS is similar)......it's like a Beamer inside....comfort all the way to the back seats (6 & 7). I was driving through Jimna State Forest...which wasn't hard but was hacked up in a few places....with my wife and her friend in the back row....my wife fell asleep. That's how smooth it is!

The power/torque of the twin turbo and the 6 speed combo is just fantastic....instant and sustained grunt. Low range with 'Sand' selected on Fraser Is was just amazing, just plowed through all the soft sand and huge muddy holes with no fuss at all...had Maxtracs and straps, which never got unpacked (thank god, 'cause my mate had a Prado..LOL....which incidently bounced all over the place and dragged it's belly in the soft sand). All of this at 13l/100ks too. On the way to Rainbow Beach I got 8.2 on the cruise, fully loaded, on and above 100kph.

At another location, I took the thing up gravel hills that a couple of mod'ed Patrols bounced and wheel spun their way up (engines revving hard), without me even spinning my wheels more than a fraction. The bog standard Hilux that was with us backed back down the valley 'cause he kept slipping into these big, deep washouts. As I said, due to the TC the D4 hardly even spun a wheel and that combined with it's massive, low down torque allowed me to choose my path and steer through everything.

I've been on beaches, hacked up dirt and gravel tracks, slippery grass and gravel hills, over rocks and haven't been bothered by anything other than driving as the conditions dictate....with care and consideration....well, except when I hit a creek wash-out on Fraser Island....but that wasn't my fault...:oops2:

So the question is...as it was at the start....what do you want the car for?

Don't speculate, as lots do.....if you can......beg, borrow, steal and brown-nose to try to drive the ones you haven't really spent any time in....in all in the conditions you propose to use it in and then make your choice....perfomance....comfort.....cost....etc, etc, etc.

Should be a lot of fun.

Cheers,

Kev. :)

This thread raises a recurring theme of doom and gloom from taking "modern" Land Rovers into vaguely remote areas. This will break, that electrical component will fail, the computer will lock you out, etc, etc, and on and on. Where are all these dumped and stranded Landies? Sure, we know of examples where new models (eg 2007 Pumas) have not been sorted as well as we would like before they were put on the market, but that is not peculiar to Land Rovers. We know that 20 inch wheels and low profile tyres are not suitable for the bush, but most of the opposition is not suitable for the bush with out significantly modifying the suspension and chipping the engines. There are lots of posts on the forum complaining about the inadequacy of CV joints in Puma Defenders but when I asked had any one actually had a problem with the joints that had not lifted the suspension, not a single reply. I could ramble on, but you have got my drift. I just don’t believe the end is nigh at hand.

Cheers
KarlB
:p

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

Don't speculate, as lots do.....if you can......beg, borrow, steal and brown-nose to try to drive the ones you haven't really spent any time in....in all in the conditions you propose to use it in and then make your choice....perfomance....comfort.....cost....etc, etc, etc.

Should be a lot of fun.

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I agree, driving other people vehicles is fun. When you have no responsibility I'd pick the most expensive and luxurious one every time and say it was great when handing it back. Similar to having a fling with a hire car. But this does not give the full picture and while journalistic road testers rave about this and that in determining their awards, it's not until you are paying for it out of your own pocket and with your own time that the best vehicle becomes apparent.

I did not test drive the latest Puma. Had I done so the difference from a RR would surely have put me off. Even, after the first few days ownership I was wondering if I'd made the right choice. But now there's absolutely no way I'd swap back. Once you get synchronised with it there's nothing which compares. As an off road vehicle it has no equal.

I see all other LR's now as on road vehicles. Despite the fact that they are also capable off-road, technology is only good up to the time that it breaks. My advice would be to keep it basic if you intend leaving the bitumen behind. :BigThumb:

If the technology in my D4 fails, it's cactus.....

But forgot to add.....12 months almost, 24,000kms no failure that even came close to stopping it rolling....even after buckling 4 wheels in a creek-bed....:no2:

Technology will never stop coming. Aircraft still fail yet generally their reliability is so high a maintenance contracting company doesn't get to see the first major servicings inside the initial 5 year contract.

As time goes by, the stuff we're bleating about will be low tech and have very few reliability issues....not that we'll care, we'll be whinging about the latest technological ideas.....LOL!!!!

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

buckling 4 wheels in a creek-bed

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What, all at once?
That's an example of technological failure. !!

Dare I say it would not have happened with 16's and a better depth of rubber.:D