Thread: Just "Defender" or bad quality?

I've had several mechanical faults with my 07 defender that have all contributed to difficult/sloppy gear changes. I owned a TD5 for comparison which made it easier to separate the chassis/driveline play from the actual mechanical failures. I wasn't left wondering if it was just me because I could compare!
I know it can be hard to differentiate the normal lash from one of these failures online, especially as everyone says landrover clutches are heavy etc, but generally the clutch should have good 'feel' - you should be able to tell through your foot what is going on - its actually a 'quality' of defenders that you pretty much can feel what the wheels and drivetrain are doing.

So, if you've lost clutch feel in an 07 Defender, and it feel like its slipping or there a lot of sloppiness in the drive train unless you finess it, and that wasn't there before, checkout 1) or 3) below. 2) seems to be related, in that if you've had 1 and 3 you'll probably get 2, from what I can tell, but they aren't causing each other - it seems to be a batch issue so I'm mentioning it:

1) the springs in the clutch pressure pack fail, maybe a few times if yours was really early and teh replacement pre-dated the new part.

There is a newer design/specification, so when yours fails after about 20,000 ask them for the new one. There is a service bulletin.

When they are on their way out, put the car in neutral, foot off clutch and start the engine/stop the engine and listen for a clunking. Its not an engine mount, its your clutch!

It may also feel like your clutch is slipping a little when you release it when driving normally).

2) if your transfer case is leaking, it may not be just the seals on an 07 Defender. It seems that front shaft bearings fail, or become prematurely worn/eccentric on some (mine did at least, 2x , but reading around it seems to be common) and the answer if yours is doing it seems to be a new front drive shaft and bearings.

Don't let them just keep replacing the seals over and over again - they are failing every 2000kms for a reason!

3) the clutch box is a frequent failure item on 07 Defenders. You'll lose clutch feel and the clutch pressure will actually drop (usually, but it may increase) and although it is usually driveable, you will notice the difference. It will just seem hard to judge the take up - it will be softer and very sensitive. It seems to be an issue of loose tolerance. Once upon a time this was a common defender problem, but it seems the TD5s lost it, or at least I don't hear about it much. 07s on the other hand!!

I hope this helps a little?

I think we can live with some leaks (diffs? sump gaskets?) but everything above really makes it a hard car to live with and I think you should persevere with the dealer. Its not meant to behave that way. If you've had 1 and 2, you probabaly aren't enjoying driving very much, especially since not many people will believe you.

You are not alone

Hey nugge_t,
I've got the diesel leak aswell but only intermittent. dealer says one way valve in breather has failed? not sure, any way as always with my Puma the part is in the UK. I also have the noisy drive train and found the clunk disappears somewhat if gears are changed at around 3000 rpm. As for the rear diff whine, I was told its the crown and pinion angle was incorrect. mine used to whine over 70ks an hour when you eased off the accelerator.The other problems Ive had in 6 months are as follows:

accelerator flat spot
engine manifold leak
handrake oil seal leak
rear diff replaced
high pressure fuel pump and injectors replaced
rust in rear panel - being monitored
faulty instrument panel glass
handbrake drum machined
cracked roof join
faulty headlight ring
leaking front hub seals

There's more I just can't remember but I think I'm atleast getting my moneys worth out of the warranty. I love defenders, this is my first one which I waited half my life to get. But to have this many issues with a new vehicle at 55k I'd have to say bad quality. I have 2.5 years of warranty left I only hope that what ever else is going to fail will do it within that time. I thought I would have this car for the next 20 years??? I hope it proves me wrong
Cheers Sooly

Originally Posted by sooly

Hey nugge_t,
I've got the diesel leak aswell but only intermittent. dealer says one way valve in breather has failed? not sure, any way as always with my Puma the part is in the UK. I also have the noisy drive train and found the clunk disappears somewhat if gears are changed at around 3000 rpm. As for the rear diff whine, I was told its the crown and pinion angle was incorrect. mine used to whine over 70ks an hour when you eased off the accelerator.The other problems Ive had in 6 months are as follows:

accelerator flat spot
engine manifold leak
handrake oil seal leak
rear diff replaced
high pressure fuel pump and injectors replaced
rust in rear panel - being monitored
faulty instrument panel glass
handbrake drum machined
cracked roof join
faulty headlight ring
leaking front hub seals

There's more I just can't remember but I think I'm atleast getting my moneys worth out of the warranty. I love defenders, this is my first one which I waited half my life to get. But to have this many issues with a new vehicle at 55k I'd have to say bad quality. I have 2.5 years of warranty left I only hope that what ever else is going to fail will do it within that time. I thought I would have this car for the next 20 years??? I hope it proves me wrong
Cheers Sooly

Mate you are soundling like my worst nightmare....me 10 years ago with my previous Land Rover experience!

I have found that I am not generally getting a clunk if I change at around 2,000 rpm with a slow smooth clutch release. Find it hard to believe that you should have to baby something that is supposed to rugged and reliable, that much though and I really worry about long term reliability as a result.

I am staying very positive. I love the truck.

Originally Posted by david_07puma

I've had several mechanical faults with my 07 defender that have all contributed to difficult/sloppy gear changes. I owned a TD5 for comparison which made it easier to separate the chassis/driveline play from the actual mechanical failures. I wasn't left wondering if it was just me because I could compare!
I know it can be hard to differentiate the normal lash from one of these failures online, especially as everyone says landrover clutches are heavy etc, but generally the clutch should have good 'feel' - you should be able to tell through your foot what is going on - its actually a 'quality' of defenders that you pretty much can feel what the wheels and drivetrain are doing.

So, if you've lost clutch feel in an 07 Defender, and it feel like its slipping or there a lot of sloppiness in the drive train unless you finess it, and that wasn't there before, checkout 1) or 3) below. 2) seems to be related, in that if you've had 1 and 3 you'll probably get 2, from what I can tell, but they aren't causing each other - it seems to be a batch issue so I'm mentioning it:

1) the springs in the clutch pressure pack fail, maybe a few times if yours was really early and teh replacement pre-dated the new part.

There is a newer design/specification, so when yours fails after about 20,000 ask them for the new one. There is a service bulletin.

When they are on their way out, put the car in neutral, foot off clutch and start the engine/stop the engine and listen for a clunking. Its not an engine mount, its your clutch!

It may also feel like your clutch is slipping a little when you release it when driving normally).

2) if your transfer case is leaking, it may not be just the seals on an 07 Defender. It seems that front shaft bearings fail, or become prematurely worn/eccentric on some (mine did at least, 2x , but reading around it seems to be common) and the answer if yours is doing it seems to be a new front drive shaft and bearings.

Don't let them just keep replacing the seals over and over again - they are failing every 2000kms for a reason!

3) the clutch box is a frequent failure item on 07 Defenders. You'll lose clutch feel and the clutch pressure will actually drop (usually, but it may increase) and although it is usually driveable, you will notice the difference. It will just seem hard to judge the take up - it will be softer and very sensitive. It seems to be an issue of loose tolerance. Once upon a time this was a common defender problem, but it seems the TD5s lost it, or at least I don't hear about it much. 07s on the other hand!!

I hope this helps a little?

I think we can live with some leaks (diffs? sump gaskets?) but everything above really makes it a hard car to live with and I think you should persevere with the dealer. Its not meant to behave that way. If you've had 1 and 2, you probabaly aren't enjoying driving very much, especially since not many people will believe you.

You are not alone

I tried 1 and did not get a clunk. Haven't found a leak as per 2 but will keep and eye on it and the clutch operating feels OK.

To me it sounds like it is right at the rear axle.

1st to 2nd - if box oil not hot, double declutch - no grating and easy change.

An old LR guru once told me that in a Defender / Series gearbox, either double declutch, or at least drop the transmission into neutral on the way to the next gear selection.

I just drive the Defender double declutch all the time.

My Disco was a real drivetrain clunker...much worse than the Defender.

Whilst on the subject of quality. My Defender in the 27 months of ownership has spent a total of 6 days in "dry dock" undergoing warranty work. This mostly at the time of the prescribed services....not too bad really given the experiences of some people. Not once have I been stranded.

My Disco however, at the same age and mileage as the Defender, blew a head gasket leaving me with out a vehicle for a month and fixed at my expense....the 300Tdi timing belt issue was also fixed at my expense not Land Rover's.

I think that maybe some LR owners forget that the Defender and most of its bits were designed at a time when warranty periods were 12 months not the current 3 years. To this can be added the archaic assembly method....the thing that makes the Defender the charming and frustrating anachronism that it is.

Originally Posted by Scallops

1st to 2nd - if box oil not hot, double declutch - no grating and easy change.

An old LR guru once told me that in a Defender / Series gearbox, either double declutch, or at least drop the transmission into neutral on the way to the next gear selection.

I just drive the Defender double declutch all the time.

dan...i hope you are practicing changing gears without a using the clutch.......double declutching every gear change your master cylinder will wear out even quicker than they do with normal driving

Originally Posted by weeds

dan...i hope you are practicing changing gears without a using the clutch.......double declutching every gear change your master cylinder will wear out even quicker than they do with normal driving

Interesting - I had asked various persons (mechanics) if DD clutching is kosher, and all have said yes, keep doing so, that it would cause no damage or excess wear and tear - in fact, they seem to suggest quite the contrary - that it's better for the transmission. However, lately I have only been doing so shifting from 1st to 2nd and especially when the gearbox is not up to normal operating temperature.

Maybe I'll stick to this practice - it only really needs this procedure for the first change up.