Thread: towing economy td5 - ideas needed

I have only just purchsed a 2001 td5 automatic.We love it, had a 1989 Defender many years ago and also loved it.TD5 uses about 10 litres per 100 kms, same as the 4BD1 did in the Defender.The TD5 performance seems ok but I wonder about engine vibration at low end revs on quiet acceleration.Not having any experience at all with a 5 cylinder engine, I would appreciate any comments. The auto is beautiful, the car is really good to drive, holds the road like its on rails, very comfortable but seems to hit pretty hard on decent ruts. Any comments on shocks, srpings etc most welcome. Enjoy reading the posts, still trying to navigate around site. Thanks.

Originally Posted by 5teve

Hi Guys

Just started some testing... first thing.. disconnect the MAF

No noticeable difference in performance except..

It seems to boost even quicker, and it surges once its up at the 19-20psi mark on the gauge.. so the overboost protection is kicking in i think.. however it logs no faults in the ECU once its surged a bit. Whereas when the MAF was connected i had no surge and errors logged.

just under 100k/h down the flat section of the freeway i was running 10.5psi boost and 350-360deg C will check on the way home tomorrow and see what it is when running with the MAF again.

I'll then test the original map and see how it goes.. and then reload Tombies mild map and see what it gets us!

Am making enquiries about a catless front pipe.. geez they are expensive over here.. so am looking for a used one..

Thanks

Steve

Steve,
I think the early D2s with no cat have the pipe you are after.
Just need to find someone wrecking one
Have done a lot of research on the Maf sensor and with it disconnected the default value appears to be 400 kg/h so the engine will overfuel up to around 2500 to 3000 rpm and then taper off to underfuelling which is why most people find there vehicle runs better down low with Maf disconnected.
This will effect fuel economy!
Also even with a modified fuel map this under fuelling at higher revs is still an issue.
So contrary to some beliefs the Maf is quite important for the A/F ratio.

Good luck in your search for better economy


Cheers,
Paul.

Mine is pre cats but when I used to track the fuel I averaged 11.5 and under 13 when towing fully loaded car trailers.
My thing's running a bruce davis super insanity custom chip, intercooler and almost everything else.

Thanks George...

And therin lies my issue.. i know it can do better... it used to do better.. but now doesnt, and didnt for a while before i added the intercooler etc. I hoped that would solve the issue..

Maybe i need a tombie super insanity chip instead of the mild one i have!

yesterday towing the boat to the city, on the flat sections to maintain around 96kmh i was using 15psi boost and egt around the 530-560 mark. I need very very little pedal to get to 18-19psi boost... and i cant understand why! maybe i just have a super effecient turbo?

From Daves post about proton energy pill... he was towing a rangie up a hill at 15psi...with standard intercooler... for me to go up a slight incline with the boat i'm up at 18-19psi to maintain speed.. and egt's rise!

I havent yet loaded the old map onto the ecu.. but will do soon and just compare how it runs.. something must have gone wrong and it be overfuelling...

If it was overfuelling, would i be getting better performance or does the additional fuel need to be 'added' in a certain way?

Default map at least would determine if the engine has a tendancy to run high boost and hot... as i'm sure not all td5's are the same..

Steve

Originally Posted by 5teve

Thanks George...

And therin lies my issue.. i know it can do better... it used to do better.. but now doesnt, and didnt for a while before i added the intercooler etc. I hoped that would solve the issue..

Maybe i need a tombie super insanity chip instead of the mild one i have!

yesterday towing the boat to the city, on the flat sections to maintain around 96kmh i was using 15psi boost and egt around the 530-560 mark. I need very very little pedal to get to 18-19psi boost... and i cant understand why! maybe i just have a super effecient turbo?

From Daves post about proton energy pill... he was towing a rangie up a hill at 15psi...with standard intercooler... for me to go up a slight incline with the boat i'm up at 18-19psi to maintain speed.. and egt's rise!

I havent yet loaded the old map onto the ecu.. but will do soon and just compare how it runs.. something must have gone wrong and it be overfuelling...

If it was overfuelling, would i be getting better performance or does the additional fuel need to be 'added' in a certain way?

Default map at least would determine if the engine has a tendancy to run high boost and hot... as i'm sure not all td5's are the same..

Steve

Over fueling will up your temps for no gain and can cause more damage. One thing to remember when going overboard with the power upgrades is it takes less for things to go wrong. My beast was running at stupidly insane levels that were not offered as a mod chip.

I would talk to tombie quick smart before it becomes a nightmare. Amongst the wreckage of my engine it's errors included overfueling on one injector, overboost errors and a total mechanical failure with engine fire. she ran on all fluids until there was non left. Fire was caused by turbo temps so high the wast gate melted.

Thanks george..

I followed your dramas... i am keeping an eye on errors, boost and egts so not pushing her too hard... the nanocom is valuble in this instance... and its logging no errors.. (wierd as i know its overboosting)

regarding my egts they are being measured pre turbo at the branch meeting point... hence they are pretty high...

Day to day running is less than 400.. so not too hot.. but probably hotter than it should be..

I'm intending to talk to tombie.. but i know he is suffering telecoms wise...

Steve

Originally Posted by 5teve

Thanks george..

I followed your dramas... i am keeping an eye on errors, boost and egts so not pushing her too hard... the nanocom is valuble in this instance... and its logging no errors.. (wierd as i know its overboosting)

regarding my egts they are being measured pre turbo at the branch meeting point... hence they are pretty high...

Day to day running is less than 400.. so not too hot.. but probably hotter than it should be..

I'm intending to talk to tombie.. but i know he is suffering telecoms wise...

Steve

Steve - Telecoms should be operational at home Thursday

400 isnt too high, I roll around town at about 350-400 depending on throttle usage... Towing on hills is around 580-650 on mine.

Dont ever overload the engine, use a lower gear and bring the revs up on hills - more rpm - more air - less heat... Labouring in 5th isnt good under big loads...

The Cat equipped TD5s tend to get worse with age, as the Cat soots up and exhaust flow suffers....

Do some simple checks like the sensor on the inlet manifold (drivers side) - These get dirty (or go faulty) and give poor readings to the ECU and use more fuel... The other culprit is the AAP sensor in the Airbox - Take a look at the readings and see if its in spec

I have a few other maps, but only in Rovacom format unfortunately at this stage.. I'll see what I can do on my break (I finish my swing Wednesday night)

Thanks Mike I was planning on Pm'ing you later once your systems were back on line, its not like i am desperate for a fix.. it runs

My towing figures are far too high then for the EGT?

I would be guessing my boost comes up too quick too... which wouldnt indicate a blocked cat from what i can gather...

I plan on a new MAF anyway... and i will check the other sensors.. the inlet manifold one is clean as... as i removed the whole thing (manifold included) and cleaned the sensor and had the inside of the manifold cleaned. will double check to see if the sensors are reading something sensible tho.

Labouring or spinning doesnt seem to make much difference.. it still climbs high...

I know the map was good as it ran well for a while... then economy dropped off and the smoke increased at low revs.. intercooler has got rid of that issue but economy wont come back... so something must have failed or gone out of spec...

My main concerns are:-

boost.. comes on very quick and strong to 19+psi with barely any pedal. wastegate set so it doesnt error out (in theory).

In slight overboost i dont feel a stutter with the MAF connected and no error is logged.. with MAF disconnected i get the overboost stutter.

EGT when towing pushing 800deg i feel is the limit.. which would be great if i was running an insane chip.. but its just the mild one.. and foot was not to the floor Boost was running 18ish psi

economy - i know i can get sub 14 on a hillier route done previously... but now 16-17 seems normal and i would be guessing around 13 for non towing.

Thanks

Steve