Thread: EGR Valve Noise

Re map time for mine very soon. One EGR was enough.

Allan

To save me searching the forum , can someone please tell me why the EGR is so "evil" and reviled by all who cross its path?

No doubt Karl B can tell us what playing with it does for our warranty ...

What does lack of EGR do for emissions at rego time?

Iglooist,

2011 Defender 110 Wagon

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"

The remap files for the EGR cancel out the self clean cycle on the Alive tuning remaps for certain, and I would think that Pete's would as well. The only downside I see to having the EGR self clean cycle cancelled is that over time the valve will be closed permanently due to being coked closed. This would only cause problems at a later date if you ever put the original OEM fuel file back on as the EGR wouldn't work causing the MIL to light up. Then again if the original map went back on and the EGR was coked closed you could always unplug it!
I see the remap as a way of closing the EGR only as a temp measure before removing the EGR altogether at a later date by means of a blank as the MIL will be taken care of with the remap file.
I have done more research into removing the EGR completely and it looks as if anyone with the EGR closed remap could get this done quite soon though it would probably affect the warranty of newer vehicles. My Puma is 2 at the beginning of next month and I want everything in place ready to swap out once it is out of warranty.
The next thought I've had is to remove the EGR cooler pipe completely and blanking the exhaust manifold instead as this would give an excellent and easy to access fitting point for a EGT thermocouple. The heat exchanger pipes could be blanked/connected allowing a complete coolant circuit.



Now if you remove all the parts in blue from the below picture all you will be replacing it with is the above picture. Apart from the MAP sensor that is.



On the picture below the original idea from Entreq was to blank the cooler pipe and remove the EGR and gas mixing pipe replacing the EGR inlet manifold with a modified one. But on the above picture, if the blank was fitted to the exhaust manifold it would give a cleaner removal of the complete EGR system and the handy mounting point for an EGT thermocouple once it was drilled and tapped.



Here is the exhaust manifold to show where the blank would go including the mounting point for the thermocouple.



In the UK the MOT test only looks for excessive smoke from the exhaust. So here the EGR does nothing other than meet the Euro emissions standard for new vehicles. I don't know the testing procedure in OZ though so the removal may be a no goer for OZ vehicles.

Originally Posted by IGL002

To save me searching the forum , can someone please tell me why the EGR is so "evil" and reviled by all who cross its path?

No doubt Karl B can tell us what playing with it does for our warranty ...

What does lack of EGR do for emissions at rego time?

Iglooist,

2011 Defender 110 Wagon

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"

Why is the EGR so evil? Directing exhaust emissions back into the engine, nearly as bad as running with no air filter. Horrible horrible gadget, it goes against all sensable thinking IMHO.

Originally Posted by IGL002

To save me searching the forum , can someone please tell me why the EGR is so "evil" and reviled by all who cross its path?

No doubt Karl B can tell us what playing with it does for our warranty ...

What does lack of EGR do for emissions at rego time?"

I can give a bit of a basic insight into it (although I am more of a spark ignition person than a compression ignition one, hopefully I'll get it all right).

The poor old EGR valve is a poorly misunderstood dirty little sod. What his job is to let inert exhaust gas into combustion chamber to take up space which will result in lower exhaust tempretures (EGT).
Lower EGT reduce the amount of Nitrous oxides (NOx) created in the exhaust gas. NOx is a pretty nasty pollutant which is what that brown haze is over city's. Vehicles are major contributers to this haze, especially ones with disabled EGR valves.

When operating correctly there is no differance in the max power output of an engine as EGR is off under wide open throttle (WOT). Light throttle/cruise is when EGR is brought in, in varying amounts. I suspect fuel economy may suffer slightly due to the reduced EGT therefore expansion (unsure about this). Although, if this is the case, the higher EGT may possiblely contribute to early engine ware (valve's burning, turbo vane tips fretting).

The trouble begins when it starts to play up. Because the valve operates in the exhaust gasses in can get very dirty then it becomes prone to stick and not seal correctly. This allows unmetered exhaust gasses into the combustion chamber, pushing out needed oxygen to complete combustion properly. The result is black smoke, lower power and poorer economy, hard starting. Not good.

EGR's have always given problem from sticking, poor seating to vacuum leaks. This leads to many shiney new parts getting fitted to your engine and a massive bill as dumb mechanics try to figure out why it won't run properly. So people have always tried to disable this little buggar before he causes any problems.
But manufacturers are always after ways of tracking the valves performance. First of all a positon sensor was fitted so the PCM could monitor the valves open/shut position. Then they realised that was not enough (it did not allow for blocked passages i.e blanking plates) as flow needed to be monitered. So this is done by cross referancing air flow past the MAF with manifold pressure and RPM. Now it can monitor for EGR performance. But with PCM's becoming programable, to allow for greater flexabilty, after market programmers are finding ways around that.
But beware the manufacturer is again on the move. It may become harder to just slip the original programme back in again during service time to keep your warrenty. PCM's in some vehicles are logging activity that some sort of manipulation has occured.

As for emission's testing in NSW, it's vertually non-existant. So unless the RTA pull you up for a test you can pump that brown haze out all day long. But if they do catch you out and find out you changed the emmissions on it. The house may require remorgaging. Very stiff penalty's.
Although it is quite ironic (typical government,RTA). Those new diesels (common rails) that pump out no smoke, ultra clean ect. If that does not have a diesel particulate filter (DPF) fitted (and many in Australia don't). Try and avoid standing behind it. Nasty crap can come out of there. It's not what you can see, it's what you can't.

Amazingly cars can be built today that, in some cities, the gas exiting an exhaust is less toxic than when it entered the engine.

I hope that helps. Probably a bit more than you wanted though.

My point exactly. If there is enough crudd to cause faults in the EGR valve, imagine what it does to a precision instriment like a high performance engine working at next to near max out put just to get the job done.

The Td5's have had blanking kits for years and they all seem to use less fuel which equals less polution.They all go better also so for me the EGR valve is a waste of space. Pat

Originally Posted by kentkal

My point exactly. If there is enough crudd to cause faults in the EGR valve, imagine what it does to a precision instriment like a high performance engine working at next to near max out put just to get the job done.

This is what I think stuffed my EGR, full load in and on the vehicle, towing a loaded boat in North West temps, the poor old EGR must have been glowing.
Thay are junk, best done away with I think.

Allan