Thread: Defender Coils

Originally Posted by rick130

FWIW when you go and order one, it's a double cardan joint

Hmm, methinks you need to put a protractor/inclinometer/angle gauge across both flange faces.
The diff pinion points up at the t/case, the t/case output shaft points up towards the top of the grille.
This angle is more severe than the V8/Isuzu/Tdi/TD5 drivetrain
I'd be interested to know what the included angle is

There was a pic floating around somewhere of the driveline in the chassis but I can't find it ATM

Puma springs and shocks

Resonating Vibration In 110

HELP! Anyone raised a PUMA? Big TROUBLE!!!

warranty issues.....vibration

110 Defender front drive shaft noise

[edit] sorry about the quotes, etc, but for whatever reason the system keeps adding quote tags after I've deleted them

I might do the protractor/inclinometer/angle gauge across both flange faces to check it out , but I just had a reply from Tom Wood as follows ,

Vince:

While I do not want to un-sell something, I am not sure you really need a new drive shaft, and I would feel uncomfortable selling you something you really don’t need. Of course, if you don’t need it but still want it, I am happy to take your money. J

The amount of lift you have installed will not usually create a length issue. If you have encountered a vibration problem and can position your differential correctly for the double cardan drive shaft, then yes, a double cardan drive shaft might be a good choice for you. You may find useful information at these links:

http://www.4xshaft.com/Landrover.html
http://www.4xshaft.com/techinfo.html
http://www.4xshaft.com/tech_slopesVSangles.html
http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html
http://www.4xshaft.com/vibrations.html

Originally Posted by Dockstrada

I might do the protractor/inclinometer/angle gauge across both flange faces to check it out , but I just had a reply from Tom Wood as follows ,

Vince:

While I do not want to un-sell something, I am not sure you really need a new drive shaft, and I would feel uncomfortable selling you something you really don’t need. Of course, if you don’t need it but still want it, I am happy to take your money. J

The amount of lift you have installed will not usually create a length issue. If you have encountered a vibration problem and can position your differential correctly for the double cardan drive shaft, then yes, a double cardan drive shaft might be a good choice for you. You may find useful information at these links:

http://www.4xshaft.com/Landrover.html
http://www.4xshaft.com/techinfo.html
http://www.4xshaft.com/tech_slopesVSangles.html
http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html
http://www.4xshaft.com/vibrations.html

All due respect, but Tom will never have seen a TDci Defender which as I've already said, has an increased driveline angle to earlier models.

Even Tdi's with 105+mm between the bump stops @ static ride height get uni bind at full droop and longer (only 10" stroke) dampers with the OE driveshaft/unis and someone on here reckoned the TDCi driveshaft/uni's had less operating angle again.
A Defender with a 2" lift is a lot higher than a Disco or RRC with a 2" lift as their static ride height is a lot lower to start with, and that's what Tom would mainly see.
There were only 500 Defenders ever imported into the US in the mid/late nineties.

All I'm suggesting is be careful, many on here have already been burnt with TDci 'fenders and a mild lift.

Originally Posted by rick130

All due respect, but Tom will never have seen a TDci Defender which as I've already said, has an increased driveline angle to earlier models.

Even Tdi's with 105+mm between the bump stops @ static ride height get uni bind at full droop and longer (only 10" stroke) dampers with the OE driveshaft/unis and someone on here reckoned the TDCi driveshaft/uni's had less operating angle again.
A Defender with a 2" lift is a lot higher than a Disco or RRC with a 2" lift as their static ride height is a lot lower to start with, and that's what Tom would mainly see.
There were only 500 Defenders ever imported into the US in the mid/late nineties.

All I'm suggesting is be careful, many on here have already been burnt with TDci 'fenders and a mild lift.

I see your point, I just measured the bump stop distance and its 125mm so from its original sagged position its lifted 20mm .

Couldn’t fitting some extended radial arms allowing the diff to rotate back to standard position solve this problem?

Originally Posted by Dockstrada

I see your point, I just measured the bump stop distance and its 125mm so from its original sagged position its lifted 20mm .

Couldn’t fitting some extended radial arms allowing the diff to rotate back to standard position solve this problem?

No way would yours be 125mm between the bump stops, if it is

I had to fit 17" free length 220lb/in springs to get 120mm with a bar/winch on a Tdi, (Tdi/TD5 HD springs are 15/15.5" free length, 225lb/in) they then settled to around 115/117mm after a few weeks.
At that height the uni's were binding

Standard ride height with a winch and bar are around 65mm between the bump stop and axle pad.

If you try and rotate the diff you'll lose your castor and the car will wander all over the road.
Use castor corrected radius arms and you make the pinion angle worse.
Use eccentric bushes to correct the castor and ditto.

The only real way to 'fix' castor and maintain the correct pinion angle is to slot the swivel bolt holes and rotate the swivel housing.


When you start playing with suspension you have to think the whole thing through, you change one thing and you alter everything else too.

Originally Posted by rick130

No way would yours be 125mm between the bump stops, if it is

I had to fit 17" free length 220lb/in springs to get 120mm with a bar/winch on a Tdi, (Tdi/TD5 HD springs are 15/15.5" free length, 225lb/in) they then settled to around 115/117mm after a few weeks.
At that height the uni's were binding

Standard ride height with a winch and bar are around 65mm between the bump stop and axle pad.

If you try and rotate the diff you'll lose your castor and the car will wander all over the road.
Use castor corrected radius arms and you make the pinion angle worse.
Use eccentric bushes to correct the castor and ditto.

The only real way to 'fix' castor and maintain the correct pinion angle is to slot the swivel bolt holes and rotate the swivel housing.


When you start playing with suspension you have to think the whole thing through, you change one thing and you alter everything else too.

Correct me if I’m wrong, from what I understand it’s the Uni’s binding on full articulation that it the problem.

So today on the way home I took the Defender off road for an hour and pushed the diff to full articulation several times by driving the left and right fronts on separate occasions up steep embankments getting opposites 1 front and 1 rear off the ground.

I didn’t see or hear a problem, I could just hear the springs settling in a bit In the start.

I also re checked the bumper to pad measurement after and it has settled down a bit to 120mm now, that is from the bottom of the rubber triangular stopper to the pad on the diff.

I must add the T/C works great, this Defender sure make my 100 series Cruiser look bad , I’ve been through this same spot with the cruiser and needed snatching a few times , it was a walk in the park with the 110 .

It's the vibration that causes most people to change to a DC shaft,it's well known and a DC shaft fix's any issue's with the TDCi and lifts so it's a non event in IMO.MM LR have DC shafts for 180 pounds plus postage. Pat

Apparently, the normal 'test' to see if you need a DC prop shaft following a lift on a Puma is to get up to highway speed and back off. If you hear an awful 'clanking spanners' noise, get a DC prop shaft. Please note that I don't recommend doing this. It would be far safer to look for binding whilst the car is stationary (picture car raised on axle stands).

Anyway, you will see several 'test' references in:
HELP! Anyone raised a PUMA? Big TROUBLE!!!

The above thread is a fantastic source of information.

Also, with a lift you have not changed the amount of travel in your suspension, rather you have changed the static height, starting point. Therefore the test of getting the front to full articulate is void. If you add longer travel shocks into the equation, then that is a different.

Hope that helps,
Scott

Originally Posted by rick130

FWIW when you go and order one, it's a double cardan joint

Hmm, methinks you need to put a protractor/inclinometer/angle gauge across both flange faces.
The diff pinion points up at the t/case, the t/case output shaft points up towards the top of the grille.
This angle is more severe than the V8/Isuzu/Tdi/TD5 drivetrain
I'd be interested to know what the included angle is

There was a pic floating around somewhere of the driveline in the chassis but I can't find it ATM

Puma springs and shocks

Resonating Vibration In 110

HELP! Anyone raised a PUMA? Big TROUBLE!!!

warranty issues.....vibration

110 Defender front drive shaft noise

[edit] sorry about the quotes, etc, but for whatever reason the system keeps adding quote tags after I've deleted them

After reading through all of these links, thanks rick130 my head is spinning.
I found the following links. The first one I found gave a measurement from the center of the wheel arch to the bottom of the brow which ranged between 525mm and 550mm, seems I sit right in the middle at 540mm, which didn’t confirm much , just that I was within this range .

HELP! Anyone raised a PUMA? Big TROUBLE!!!

Then thanks to one__iota I found this that confirmed the standard heights, which confirms that I’m with in the standard height.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment...dresult.do.pdf