Thread: 2013 Defender 90. Long term vehicle?

Get the 90!

Every other new 4WD is an appliance and you'll be bored within a handful of months (won't admit to it but).

And don't listen to the naysayers about possible issues. ALL new TDs have their issues, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, VW etc etc. If you take the time to read up on some of the other forums you'll come back thinking the Deefer is positively reliable.

It's the nature of the beast with modern Turbo-diesels, so you may as well buy the only one that is terribly cool and thoroughly interesting

Go with the 90, great little truck.
Took our 90 to Fraser towing the camper trailer, got into a couple of sticky situations in the extremely soft sand with low tyre pressure & the little truck saved the day.
This is a great 4x4, looking forward to testing it further in the future.

Go with your gut feeling

David

Hi TheWilk,

It never ceases to amaze me how the people that keep advising others to not buy a puma don't actually own one themselves. For the record my puma is a little over 6 months old and has now done 18,000 kms without any dramas. It's quiet (for a defender), and has no dust leaks. I still haven't met a Puma owner that is a member of Aulro, (occasionally bump into fellow owners when in town) and all the ones that I have met tell me that they haven't had any dramas. This is starting to lead me to believe that Aulro might not be a reliable source of info when it comes to assessing the number of Puma's on the road with problems. I think it comes down to the fact the when people have an issue they normally google to find out if others have had a similar problem and Aulro is normally the first site to pop up.

Have you considered the government vehicle auctions?
A mate of mine picked up an ex police patrol. my11 for 33k. Came with dual batteries, winch bar & almost unused warn winch. Cargo barrier 7 seats & ac that works. Nice truck the patrol. Solid drive train, comfortable to drive & plenty of space.

Id stick with the patrol.
Having said all that, geeez i love my defender.
Be hard for me to go to the dark side.

Originally Posted by jplambs

Hi TheWilk,

It never ceases to amaze me how the people that keep advising others to not buy a puma don't actually own one themselves. For the record my puma is a little over 6 months old and has now done 18,000 kms without any dramas. It's quiet (for a defender), and has no dust leaks. I still haven't met a Puma owner that is a member of Aulro, (occasionally bump into fellow owners when in town) and all the ones that I have met tell me that they haven't had any dramas. This is starting to lead me to believe that Aulro might not be a reliable source of info when it comes to assessing the number of Puma's on the road with problems. I think it comes down to the fact the when people have an issue they normally google to find out if others have had a similar problem and Aulro is normally the first site to pop up.

Originally Posted by Naks

Bought a new Puma 90 in Feb 2010. So far, with only 34900km on the clock:

New front axle (was pulling left)
New gearbox
New rear diff
New clutch

too many other bits & pieces to mention.


The 2.2 is supposedly much better though.

Originally Posted by Naks

LR replaced the original clutch (2010) with a new one (version 2) in June 2012 after I complained at length about the rattle.

In December the new clutch started rattling very softly. I asked them to replace with the post-August 2012 version 3 clutch and they refused, saying they could not hear the rattle.

After I got back from holidays, I sent a strongly-worded email to LRSA's complaints department asking them why they want to wait for my clutch to fail (probably in the middle of nowhere) before replacing it.

They arranged for me to take it to LR Stellebosch for a proper assessment. Vehicle went in yesterday and they just called to say that after removing the clutch and visually inspecting it, they are indeed going to replace it.

So looks like a Puma's clutch only lasts between 2000 - 3000km

Originally Posted by Grappler

My 40 + year love affair with Land Rovers is becoming a little strained since buying a new 2012 Defender. I’ve always owned and loved at least one Land Rover since I learned to drive, and have 5 at the moment.

I’ve been following this thread and had decided to bite my tongue. I didn’t want to appear a “knocker or naysayer”, but today was the last straw.

All these problems have been resolved under warranty, before 5000km

Leaking coolant- screw cap replaced
Leaking coolant- plastic tank replaced
Corrosion in chassis- repaired and painted
Rear tailgate jammed shut- latches adjusted
Front output shaft seal leak- solved after 2 attempts
Gaps in bodywork- mastic applied
Rear diff growling- diff replaced
Seat belt recall- bolts replaced
Front torsion bar fell off (almost a showstopper) - nuts and bushes replaced
Gearbox removed to solve oil leaks
Hose clamps incorrectly installed- hose replaced and clamps re-orientated (this common fault was detected before failure with advise from this forum)
Damaged wiring resulting from gearbox work- repaired
Loose/missing nuts bolts sills- replaced
Front hub leak- solved after 4 attempts (2 seal replacements and 2 new hub assemblies)
HCPU tub not mounted squarely and pounding on rear of cabin –adjusted

None of these were showstoppers, not stranded, but were inconvenient. I have traveled over 2000km alone delivering the vehicle to the dealer 350 km away (700 round trip) for this warranty work.

But today a show stopper-stranded

Engine symbol on dash and then limp mode.

Checked under bonnet, fluids all good, no overheating, no hoses fallen off that I could see.
Called the 1800 LR assist line and put me through the lock - unlock sequence without clearing the fault. They advised it needed transport to the dealer for diagnosis. Also advised driving in limp mode voids warranty
3 hrs later the flat bed arrived for the long journey of shame.

Hopefully we will iron out the problems during the remaining 2 years warranty and it will be as reliable as my 1997 TDi 300. She has her old spot back in the shed tonight!

Originally Posted by Leroy_Riding

I'm seriously going to explode soon people. . .

Just got of the phone with Customer Care after a heated discussion, and before that a discussion with the Dealer who has my car in Townsville.

Lets summaries for you all (typing while angry probably not the best but who cares)

fuel pump has been replaced NO CHANGE!!!!!
and better yet NO EXPLANATION!

now they have apparently sent the Injectors away a second time and another one has come back faulty. . . . like really?

so now they are awaiting approval form LRA to replace that injector or all 3 remaining injectors.
So Ergo. . . I am no closer to haven't my car back and progress made = ZILCH!

I have requested every single bit fo paper and technical readouts they have for my car and that has been communicated between the dealer, LRA Technical and customer care and am awaiting a response on as to whether they will give me it or not. .

so I call customer care after this one. . .

Spoke with a helpfull fellow that ive been speaking too, Nice guy. . I feel bad for him having to deal with me.
I explained the situation, including how un-impressed I am with what has been done so far, and that I haven't requested a rental car till now.
I then told him that they WILL! be getting me a 4wd rental with towbar that I can and WILL take offroad as these are the two purposes for me owning a defender.
the response was along the lines of they can ask the rental companies but chances are the answer will be no as they wont let the cars be used offroad. .

so to re-cap
car still no closer to being fixed after 4 weeks. .
poor communication from the dealer
I have requested al technical documentation to be sent to me and am awaiting this
I have requested a 4wd with tow bar for 4wding and towing use
and Im about ready to explode. . .

where do things go from here? what can I do?

/End Rant
Leroy

Just a few Current Puma owners thoughts for you jplambs. Gee it is amazing how the people putting up these threads don't actually own a Puma themselves. Glad to hear yours is giving you a trouble free ride. Maybe time to but that lottery ticket.

Regards Warrick.

Seriously Warrick,

Do you get off on pointing that out? Every new vehicle has issues, every new TD model, from VW Passat through to an LC200 has a forum just like this where some people get lucky and have a fairly good time of new car ownership and some people dont .. what i read in all this is that LRA (especially if you get a good dealer) seems to support and honour the warranty claims a hell of a lot more than many/any of the others .. One of the LC200's we have at work had its warranty voided by Toyota, why? coz we modded it? No, coz it went off road?? ..

Show us a NEW TD that is problem free .. I'm kinda over people comparing a 2012/2013 Defender to an isuzu one from the 80's .. I drive them at work, i'll give you the hint, they are not great ..

Wade

phew, glad my comments misses wpalmo sweep.

I think having had mine since 2010 I'd front up for another. It has had it's problems and even been flat bedded 2 times. And quite amazing what LR have put into it with warranty.
However I use it every day for a tradies work truck, and go camping off road most weekends. It goes the the beach several times a year, It's done two long haul trips. One to the high country, one to the desert, and its going back again this year. So for what it does, it has on the whole been reliable, and vert comfortable, capable, and fun. But sure annoying in the first few months.

A new 90 will give you grief, there is no getting away from that. No one can tell you if it will happen in the city like mine, or further afield like others. Or how much grief. The 90's run a different diff to the problematic 110 and 130 diffs, so I don't think 90's have diff issues really. The Tdci motor in general has had very few complaints. The most common one fits into the dumb stuff category, like the hose clamp placed where it rubs on another hose, or the door handle falling off. And that is what LR ownership is about in many ways. So if you can accept finishing off the last 10% of the build with warranty it will become great reliable car.

There is also no getting away, put a few bob back into the Patrol and it service you well too. I'd imaging after a few major mechanicals done it may have some bedding in small complaints too. But if you've been happy with it for awhile, there is a plus to having no electricals in the middle of nowhere.

Originally Posted by newhue

phew, glad my comments misses wpalmo sweep.

I think having had mine since 2010 I'd front up for another. It has had it's problems and even been flat bedded 2 times. And quite amazing what LR have put into it with warranty.
However I use it every day for a tradies work truck, and go camping off road most weekends. It goes the the beach several times a year, It's done two long haul trips. One to the high country, one to the desert, and its going back again this year. So for what it does, it has on the whole been reliable, and vert comfortable, capable, and fun. But sure annoying in the first few months.

A new 90 will give you grief, there is no getting away from that. No one can tell you if it will happen in the city like mine, or further afield like others. Or how much grief. The 90's run a different diff to the problematic 110 and 130 diffs, so I don't think 90's have diff issues really. The Tdci motor in general has had very few complaints. The most common one fits into the dumb stuff category, like the hose clamp placed where it rubs on another hose, or the door handle falling off. And that is what LR ownership is about in many ways. So if you can accept finishing off the last 10% of the build with warranty it will become great reliable car.

There is also no getting away, put a few bob back into the Patrol and it service you well too. I'd imaging after a few major mechanicals done it may have some bedding in small complaints too. But if you've been happy with it for awhile, there is a plus to having no electricals in the middle of nowhere.

The patrol has just as much electricals as any new modern motor, it's the first GU with the electronic control for the fuel pump. I had issues with it going into limp mode(throttle position sensor) usually pulling out of intersections the car would just die back to idle. Its still got the odd intermitent flat spot at 1600rpm. Its had its fair share of issues I'll admit, but never left me stranded(even driven it 350kms through the Kimberley with a rooted alternator)