Thread: The "New" Defender,.....When?

... and we're off on the engine debate... again...

Everybody to his own choices as we'll never convince each other that any one of the engines is or would be better for a Defender. As crazy as it sounds, the 3.2 liter engine would have been very unpopular in Europe for more reasons than anyone would believe -road tax, vehicle licensing, fuel consumption, engine capacity (CC loading), Co2 emissions etc...

Fact remains that if your car is newer than 2007 you have to "suffer the indignity" of added luxury and comfort... It all reminds me of the discussions in the early 80's when Land Rover "ruined the brand" by sticking coil springs in...!

Lets just enjoy them for what they are and be proud that we own vehicles referred to as a "legend", an "icon" and "one of the best pieces of industrial design the world has yet seen".

Should you buy one of the last Land Rovers? - Telegraph

Cheers,

Lou

Originally Posted by Loubrey

... "one of the best pieces of industrial design the world has yet seen".

...

I nearly vomited when I saw that.

That statement is among the all time greatest loads of clap trap the world has yet seen, and I dare say will remain so, well into the future.

Originally Posted by Loubrey

...As crazy as it sounds, the 3.2 liter engine would have been very unpopular in Europe for more reasons than anyone would believe -road tax, vehicle licensing, fuel consumption, engine capacity (CC loading), Co2 emissions etc...

Sure, but most manufacturers offer engines appropriate to the market. Try buying an Audi A8 in Australia with the 2.5L TD that is most commonly fitted in europe...

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Sure, but most manufacturers offer engines appropriate to the market. Try buying an Audi A8 in Australia with the 2.5L TD that is most commonly fitted in europe...

I don't disagree at all, but its bean counters that rule roost in all companies these days and if you compare Audi, Ford, Volkswagen, Opel/Vauxhaul/Holden/Chevrolet etc' sales compared to Land Rover's it is clear that its highly unlikely we'll ever see country specific Land Rover engine options. Australia is such a niche market for Land Rover (compared to the rest of the world) that I'd be very surprised if our wishes or requirements feature at all in their development plans (130's, long range tanks etc).

Who knows, maybe they nail it with the Project Icon Defender 2 (what ever they call it) and it turns out to be something at least 50% of the current owners and a large portion of new owners want and likes.

I appreciate the remaining 50% of County/ Defender owners will forever reject modern technology and smaller economical engines in a Defender and or its replacement, but I suppose that is what vintage car owner clubs are about...

I'll be keeping my current Defender for a long long time, but I'm not naive enough to fail to see what a modern car manufacturer has to do to stay alive.

As marque enthusiasts all we can do is accept the inevitable and hope for the best.

Cheers,

Lou

Originally Posted by Loubrey

... and we're off on the engine debate... again...

Everybody to his own choices as we'll never convince each other that any one of the engines is or would be better for a Defender. As crazy as it sounds, the 3.2 liter engine would have been very unpopular in Europe for more reasons than anyone would believe -road tax, vehicle licensing, fuel consumption, engine capacity (CC loading), Co2 emissions etc...

It is my understanding that vehicle excise tax in europe is done from CO2 ratings (i.e. fuel consumption) and not engine size. There is still however a strong correlation between engine capacity and fuel consumption (hence CO2) in the standard test cycles.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Sure, but most manufacturers offer engines appropriate to the market. Try buying an Audi A8 in Australia with the 2.5L TD that is most commonly fitted in europe...

You mean the 2.5tdi that hasn't been offered in a new car since about 2004?
That was a very average engine, high on fuel consumption but not on power. The current 2.0tdi 4 cyl's beat that V6 for fuel consumption and power.
The current VAG 3.0tdi V6's beat the old 2.5's for everything. But they do use more fuel than the 4's.

Originally Posted by Dougal

...

You mean the 2.5tdi that hasn't been offered in a new car since about 2004?:

I drove a near new company Audi sedan in mid 2012 in Germany. I was a 2.X L diesel. I recall is was an A8 variant but could be wrong. I remember googling the equivalent Australian model at the time and the smallest diesel was 3.X L

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I drove a near new company Audi sedan in mid 2012 in Germany. I was a 2.X L diesel. I recall is was an A8 variant but could be wrong. I remember googling the equivalent Australian model at the time and the smallest diesel was 3.X L

I was looking for a 4wd tdi station wagon last year (showed the wife a defender, she didn't say no, I did ) and the used A6 allroads were all off the menu because of that awful 2.5tdi. It was a VP44 injection pump.

There are rumours of a 2.7v6 tdi, but I can't seem to find anything concrete on it. Certainly not sold in NZ and I think we get the same spec cars as Aussie.

Here's the current audi.de A8 diesel choices, nothing to complain about there, 190 or 283kw:
Benzin
Looks like the A6 gets the 4 cyl 2.0tdi option, one of those perhaps?:
Benzin

Interestingly the eco-tune 150kw 3.0tdi v6 (which we don't get) has fuel consumption not much higher than the 4 cyl. You could also get the A4 with an eco-tune 110kw 2.0tdi's in europe which we didn't get here. They have stunning fuel economy.

If only Germany was RHD.

But getting back to landrover. We all know they'd be silly to not offer the 3.0 sdv6 option. But if they do, it'll be bought for traffic light racing, not working.

Originally Posted by Loubrey

... and we're off on the engine debate... again...

Everybody to his own choices as we'll never convince each other that any one of the engines is or would be better for a Defender. As crazy as it sounds, the 3.2 liter engine would have been very unpopular in Europe for more reasons than anyone would believe -road tax, vehicle licensing, fuel consumption, engine capacity (CC loading), Co2 emissions etc...

Fact remains that if your car is newer than 2007 you have to "suffer the indignity" of added luxury and comfort... It all reminds me of the discussions in the early 80's when Land Rover "ruined the brand" by sticking coil springs in...!

Lets just enjoy them for what they are and be proud that we own vehicles referred to as a "legend", an "icon" and "one of the best pieces of industrial design the world has yet seen".

Should you buy one of the last Land Rovers? - Telegraph

Cheers,

Lou

yep since you decided to throw you hat into the ring

Now you say it would not be popular. Since when is popular = best?? And since the reason is most likely $$$ and that put on top by the government, how does that make the larger engine a worse choice for the LR and the work its ment to able to do easily!

I guess by numbers the Toyota suspension design on their landcrusiers superior to Nissans and more so than Land Rovers because they are more popular....

No matter if the 3.2 drinks a bit more than the 2.2 on paper, I doubt it would fully loaded at 100km/h in summer here.

Isuzurover showed 3 different engines, and that also pointed out the state of tune of the VW. It probably has a better turbo set up as well, but do you think that little 2.0 is going have the life of the 3.2? Thats a hard question as we dont know if one is much better designed and employing better materials and machining than the other. But given they are both being mass produced and trying to make a profit, I would doubt one twice the quality than the other...

As for dougals comment, I would go and buy a LR right now if it came with a 3.2 ford or the 3.0 v6 from other LR. And it would be for work not for traffic light racing.