Thread: All discussions relating to the Defenders end of production

Originally Posted by 4wheeler

who is going to take a vehicle like that into the Victorian High Country (assuming you could get rims and tyres to fit).

**** I would.

Perhaps worth remembering that the current Landrover-Jaguar is essentially the old Rover company, and is thriving on the same market as the Rover company did in the thirties, and aspired to in the forties, fifties and sixties.

The Land Rover, in 1947, was totally out of character, and unlike anything the company had even thought of prior to then, and whether it was seen as a stopgap or as a new area of business, it remained a sideline in one sense. Far more effort and capital was put into developing the Rangerover, Rover 2000 (&3500) and other saloons than was put into Landrovers, even during the fifties, sixties and early seventies when Landrover represented the vast majority of the company's production and profit.

The company is not currently under the stress it was in 1947, so I suspect the future does not look good for the Defender replacement.

John

Would Land Rover really choose to ignore a space that is the largest vertical market? ie The dual cab ute market. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you consider that they are expanding and creating niche markets with vehicles like the Evoque to ignore such a large market sector completely.
Not sure how they would approach the "heavy duty" category though when that market in the US, logically their biggest opportunity is dominated by Ford, GM and Dodge.
Maybe a 4wd capable vehicle in the "half ton" (not necessarily its load rating in Aus) category would be the logical approach as there is not the competition in that sector in the US and it is a good fit with their traditional market.
Their competitors in this space are the Ranger and the (now 3l) Amarok. I would expect a Defender to meet that market.
As an aside last weekend we had a stock Mazda BT50 with an aluminium tray on a trip that proved just as capable as the Defenders and troopie that were there. Factory rear lockers and traction control will give a huge boost in capability over an older vehicle.
Whatever the Defender replacement is it will be unlikely to rip your belt loops, make you sit in a wierd driving position or force you to have your leg broken to accomodate the handbrake lever so I suspect some of us will be dissappointed

Regards,
Tote

I remember at one stage McGovern said they were benchmarking to beat the Hilux, even planning to fit the same size parts such as bolts etc to make remote repairs easier. He said they were planning a whole new range of vehicles under the 'durable' description.
I wouldn't get too worried about reports of delays. The important thing is they get it right and produce a true work vehicle which can also appeal to recreational buyers so it sells in large numbers. They already have the chassis, engines and other bits in other vehicles, so it's a case of getting the design and engineering right.
I'm sure they are capable of doing that, if they think the business case stacks up.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Originally Posted by 4wheeler

Pickles,
I think we are on different pages of the same song book. I am talking about a vehicle with true 4x4 capability. You are talking about a 575hp RR worth $220.000. Am I going to toss a bail of hay in the back? Probably not. While it is obviously a magnificent vehicle and a "weapon" who is going to take a vehicle like that into the Victorian High Country (assuming you could get rims and tyres to fit). I agree that JLR are building vehicles which people want and they are all attractive or appealing vehicles to JLR's main target audience these days (hence my tongue in cheek comment about pretty vehicles) but apart from the Discovery, what use are they to those who want to use them for what a true 4x4 is used for.

I am well aware of the Defender's shortcomings and any new vehicle needs to be dragged into the modern era of safety, fit and finish. Whatever they call it must be modern, safe and functional but if it is just another Discovery or RR, why bother.

The Defender was meant to be replaced after the TD5 but then came the TDCI. Then the replacement was meant to be 2012 but same old same old. Then 2016, Defender gone with new model due 2017. Now it is speculated that it is now 2020 and beyond. Land Rover is living up to the catch-phrase "Go Beyond" with the Defender replacement that is for sure.

"Same Book"?....I think you're right.
One thing is for sure, IMHO of course, JLR could not keep producing Defender, expensive, Labor intensive, to produce etc, and lucky to sell 16/18000 a year worldwide, ...prior to the "last minute rush". No-one's buying them, because the competition's MILES ahead & cheaper, so no-one really wanted a Defender, except enthusiasts,..like us.
Whatever any "new" Defender will be, if there is one, if it ain't like "ours", I wouldn't be surprised, I'd be happy actually, I'd really like ours to be "The Last Of The Line".
But, whilst I'm looking forward to seeing any "New" Defender, I'm not into any criticism of, having a go at etc, JLR,.....why?.....because there's nothing really to have a go at,.....until we have "something",....at the moment we've got nothing.
LRO?...some of those U.k. mags are the greatest peddlars of "myth & hearsay" that I've ever heard of. One guy from LRO said He'd heard from a "Top Level JLR Exec", that the Defender line was "Definitely" going off shore", and production would continue!!!!.....and this from a main stream mag,....so I don't take too much notice. I even sent him an email telling he was talking rubbish, & should be more responsible before he went on with stuff like that!!...Didn't get a reply!!,
I'm not into Evoque types of vehicle either, but I guess plenty are, and Disco Sports etc.
I'm sure JLR could build a MAGNIFICENT "new" Defender if they wanted to, but whether they're interested in competing in a lower cost, (it'll have to be to compete), super popular bracket where there are a HUGE number of brands & massive competition,.....well I'm not so sure about that.
I reckon JLR are "killing 'em" at the moment,...every time I go into our Dealer, it's virtually impossible to talk to a sales person, they're always on the phone, with big smiles on their faces,....selling heaps,....buyers seem to just walk in & sign up!
So, until I know something, I don't have much of any value to say about a "New" Defender, except that, whilst I know NOTHING about it,...IF there is one, whatever it is, I reckon that the people at Solihull will make sure that it'll be Good.
Pickles.

It's not about critiquing a vehicle that doesn't yet exist. It's about criticising JLR for what really amounts to at least 20 years of inaction on redesigning Defender for the future. It's clearly been a very low priority for a long time, and it still is. JLR deserves to be roundly criticised.

VW came out and declared they were going head to head with Hilux...and that's exactly what they are doing with Amarok. McGovern saying similar things is clearly just platitudes covering for inaction, poor development design and frankly, it's hugely disrespectful towards the core of Land Rover design and function.

JaguarRover showing its true colours now with a pure focus on expensive, elitist, luxury focussed vehicles will backfire IMO. Not immediately because yes the dealerships are peddling the 'image' of adventure in a high tech armchair, drawing on the pedigree of Series/Defender vehicles. But now that this is gone, the ruggedness of LR vehicles will only further dissipate.

I don't agree that their current designers have the capability of building a serious heavy duty work vehicle. None of them would ever have driven one for work for a start. They are fixated with 'heritage' and image, fancy photo shoots, Barbour and hounds tooth fashion, high tech and biased market research. Not real world working robustness.

Bring on the next Isuzu work/adventure truck I reckon.

Defenders last forever anyway. That's really why sales are historically low.

Cheers

If it wasn't for the price the Mercedes Benz G 350 d would seem to be what a Defender could be, automatic, front pax/driver airbags, 3 locking diffs, & even looks kind of nice in a Defenderish way. I would definitely consider one of these over a Range Rover & who knows next year when my UK pensions kick in I might just do that, but will still keep the Defender.

Originally Posted by Avion8

If it wasn't for the price the Mercedes Benz G 350 d would seem to be what a Defender could be, automatic, front pax/driver airbags, 3 locking diffs, & even looks kind of nice in a Defenderish way. I would definitely consider one of these over a Range Rover & who knows next year when my UK pensions kick in I might just do that, but will still keep the Defender.

I am a huge fan of the g wagon my mate has. Unfortunately it's tough to get accessories etc. He also had to special import his because they don't offer the professional series in Australia via the dealers. The professional series has much tougher standard kit, including much bigger suspension, no low profile tires, much more basic interior. It's actually a direct defender competitor in Europe. Also not so crazily expensive.

Also check out their recent 4x4? stock 4x4 with portal axle for the civilian market. Currently only in concept phase, although being Mercedes the middle east tends to change that.