All discussions relating to the Defenders end of production

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

Who's Pontificating about nothing? ..."One thing I'm certain of, well no not certain, but hopeful of..."

Yes pickles we are all flying blind here. One thing I do know is that JLR have put nowhere near as much effort into coming up with a Defender replacement as they have in developing all other models for many many years. Defender is over. Therefore any discussion about a fanciful new blank sheet model development really belongs in a new thread. Perhaps you'd like to start one if you think your perspective is the one that really counts?

Without Defender, Land Rover's cred as a manufacturer of serious 4X4 vehicles is significantly diminished. The lineage is broken and the brand is now 100% focussed on the luxury market. Just like Volvo, BMW, Porsche, etc. not much off road cred there I would suggest.

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Mate, here you go again,..."One thing I do know is that JLR have put nowhere.........."
The fact is, you can't say "I do know", because in actual fact, you don't know anything, you have no idea, neither do I, neither does anyone else, what JLR is doing re Defender. How can you say "I do know", when the fact is, you don't, and neither does anyone else.
Landrover "lost its Cred"......jeez, in its first year Evoque sold over 100,000 units, Defender at the time selling between 13/15000 units before the last minute rush. with that sort of "contribution" to sales, it's a wonder they're doing anything,....actually, maybe you, & certainly me, wish they weren't!
There is a possibility, well maybe not in your mind, that because of the "delay" with the new Defender, JLR are not in any hurry, because they actually DO want to "get it right",....so that they will sell more than 13/15000 units a year.
My "perspective" on the "new" Defender?....I don't have one, I have no idea at all,...but, if there is to be one, I'm confident that whilst it may not be to the liking of us "traditional" Defender "enthusiasts", it will compete on the world stage very well, just as everyone of JLR's releases of late have done.
Pickles.
NB: All IMHO of course Mr. Landy,...nothing wrong with good discussion!

Cheers Pickles. If only we were sitting around a campfire together right now! :)

Yup Land Rover certainly now have huge cred in projecting the image of escapeism for urban adventurers, I'm not disputing that. But it's not the type of cred I value in a vehicle and I don't see many positive signs, over the past ten years at least, of LR seriously valuing any market other than luxury urbanity.

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

Cheers Pickles. If only we were sitting around a campfire together right now! :)

Yup Land Rover certainly now have huge cred in projecting the image of escapeism for urban adventurers, I'm not disputing that. But it's not the type of cred I value in a vehicle and I don't see many positive signs, over the past ten years at least, of LR seriously valuing any market other than luxury urbanity.

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"Sitting Around A Campfire"?...agree!!, I'd be in that.
Regards, Pickles.

I think JLR are doing very well at expanding themselves from a niche manufacturer towards a major auto company.
Of course, that means change. There's no doubt of that.
For example, their largest sellers (Evoque, Disco Sport) are the vehicles the traditionalists sneer at the most. JLR is laughing all the way to the bank.
I can't see any reason why JLR can't build a great new Defender. They have all the bits already available to them, they just have to put them together in the best way for a durable work truck..

Yup you'd think so Mick wouldn't you. So why haven't they?

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I think JLR are doing very well at expanding themselves from a niche manufacturer towards a major auto company.
Of course, that means change. There's no doubt of that.
For example, their largest sellers (Evoque, Disco Sport) are the vehicles the traditionalists sneer at the most. JLR is laughing all the way to the bank.
I can't see any reason why JLR can't build a great new Defender. They have all the bits already available to them, they just have to put them together in the best way for a durable work truck..

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BUT,...it ain't as easy as that.
The landscape has changed totally sinse Rover designed & built the original "Land Rover" (copied by Toyota with Land "Cruiser" not long after), where it had NO competitiion....NONE.
There is so much competition, and much of it, (most of it?) in a relatively low price bracket, that maybe JLR does not want, or feels it does not even need, to compete with, in this environment.
"Sentimentality" doesn't count for much in business these days, where every post needs to be a winner,...so I say,...if JLR decide to divert from "traditionalism", & design a totally different Defender, well good luck to them, 'cause if I was a shareholder, that is exactly what I'd want them to do, rather than worry about what 15,000 people who "liked" the "original" Defender, in it's last years of production.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

rather than worry about what 15,000 people who "liked" the "original" Defender, in it's last years of production.

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My mental worldwide survey returned millions of people liking the original defender, in principle.

You may have got your surveys mixed up... I think it's only 15,000 adults in the world that have never heard of the original land rover "defender". 😁 :D

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Originally Posted by manic

My mental worldwide survey returned millions of people liking the original defender, in principle.

You may have got your surveys mixed up... I think it's only 15,000 adults in the world that have never heard of the original land rover "defender". �� :D

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"Millions" maybe, "liked" it, but more importantly, how many "BOUGHT' it?
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

As I said above...Dimensions, shape, form, aluminium, driving position, 4 coils, 4 discs, clearance, live axles, flat floors, big chassis, sep transfer case, etc

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You need to consider the regulatory environment that exists now compared to 1948. The problem with the current dimensions and shape is there is not enough room to provide the required level of occupant safety - just look at how thin the doors are and what can fit in there. They cannot keep the vertical front end as consideration now needs to be given to pedestrian impact.

I know you like the driving positon, but for most its an ergonomic nightmare. The command driving position is good, but it can be done a lot better now. It has to have more passenger space. I find it ridiculous driving a four door vehicle the size of a 110 and not being able to fit passengers in the rear seat. It was designed around post-war malnourished poms - we've moved on from there.

It would be nice if it kept the look of the current shape, but it needs to be a modern interpretation without being retro.

Interesting that coils and discs are part of its iconic nature but for most of its life it had leaf springs and drum brakes.

I also find it interesting that the Defender name is considered iconic when its a relatively recent creation done for marketing purposes.

I think what will be important in the new design will be the capability of the overall package, rather than the individual details used to achieve it.

Cheers,
Jon

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

"Millions" maybe, "liked" it, but more importantly, how many "BOUGHT' it?
Pickles.

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2,016,933 sold... that might even be true!