Thread: I need to make an injection pump locking tool

do you have a DTI that can use to check the plunger lift?

The lr wsm states 1.35mm at tdc (IIRC - I wrote it down somewhere...), so I intend pulling the pump off, taking it back for the guy to recheck

Jode,
You CANNOT check the plunger lift with the IP on the bench.
Your numbers are correct and it relates to the actual movement of the plunger when the cylinder is at TDC. The plunger lift is measured by removing the centre cap between the fuel lines.
The easiest is to use a dial indicator (DTI) with a small plunger, then the DTI housing threads onto the injection pump port (M10x1.0) I made up a jigger for my dial indicator - BUT I believe Toyota diesel DTI can be used with no mods needed. Now you just roll the engine over on the crank (pop out the glowies to make it easy)

The lift measurement is pretty easy to ascertain once you have frigged around doing all the above. As the crank turns the DTi will just sit still then as engine approaches TDC for each pot the gauge will spike up and then down - it is essentially the shot of fuel being given to each fuel pipe.

The above cannot be done with the pump on the bench as the timing is a function of piston location which is not set by the IP.

Your problems do seem to be possible timing related however. Does a standard timing pin slide easily into the IP when the crank flywheel slot is set to TDC?

I think you are better off removing the timing case cover and ensuring that all is well inside and the engine is timed perfectly before pulling the IP off.

Steve

Hmmm,
Just thinking, if it "runs well at boost" but is smokey off boost
might be worth checking over the aneroid settings
Not discounting timing but the above symptoms could also be too much fuel off boost?
Do you have EGT & boost gauges by any chance?

Steve

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Hmmm,
Just thinking, if it "runs well at boost" but is smokey off boost
might be worth checking over the aneroid settings
Not discounting timing but the above symptoms could also be too much fuel off boost?
Do you have EGT & boost gauges by any chance?

Steve

Im thinking he might be late injecting and over wound on the fuel screw/aneroid.

Steve and Dave -
1. Firstly, when I set the "belt" timing, I had the timing cover off and the rad out. I've recently done this twice - firstly when completing the reassembly after the engine rebuild, and secondly in response to all the smoke - again dropped the rad to ensure clear views to the crank, cam and timing gear marks. It was reasonable to look at belt timing being out being the cause of the smoking. So I'm very confident that the belt timing is spot-on.

2. Secondly, what is "aneroid"? I've checked all my dictionaires wihtout success, and the Bosch VE manual that I downloaded off the net doesn't have it in its text, either. Dave, I gather from your response that this relates to the fuel screw setting - I presume you are not referring to the idle screws but to the full load adjusting screw that sits above the fuel cut-off switch - correct? Or are you refering to the governor adjustment screw?

3. Unfortunately I have neither a boost or EGT gauge, but I do have a DTI; don't know if I can rig an adapter up to check the pump lift but will have a look-see today. Based on Steve's comments, I should leave the pump in and drive it to the pump guy for him to check the lift in-situ. I gather that by adjusting this timing screw the pressure of the hi-pressure chamber is either increased or decreased in response to a corresponding increase or decrease in the volume of the hi-pressure chamber in the distributor head; and consequently, as the injectors pop in response to specific pressures, either advance or retard the fuel delivery - correct?

the aneroid is the boost compensation device.

if its not hooked up setup and working correctly a less than stellar pump guy will get the fuel delivery right by winding up the max fuel screw. this produces masses of smoke while off boost.

as you may be about to find out just because the cam and pump wheels are in the right place it doesnt mean that the pump is matched to the wheel correctly. you can also run afowl of getting the timing out a bit if you have the slack in the belt in the wrong spot and then do the tensioner up, as you tighten up the belt the slack will let the wheels move slightly in relation to the crank and if your engine is "highly strung" that will be enough to make smoke.

theres 4 screw settings on the pump you can play with the one you shouldnt ever touch is the governoer set screw.

the two on the top that press directly onto the throttle arm are your low and high idle speed settings and the last one is the max fuel delivery screw (roughly named)

there are 3 other settigns you can play with.

on the top of the pump is a housing that is held down with 4 screw, has an air line on it that runs to the turbo side of the engine and has an anti tamper cover.
. under this is a diaphragm which is used to push a plunger against engine boost and controls the fuel set postion for varying conditions of boost.

Straight up under the anti tamper cover is the start position set screw. Wind it in for more fuel and out for less at idle I usually adjust this last to fine tune the idle with the engine warm.

with the cover removed you will find the diaphragm and its got a driving plate with a small hole in it for position marking reasons. If you pull it out you will see the plunger is an off set taper that will push against a plunger pin and move it to various positions. simply rotate the whole punger and diaphragm assembly to change how agressively the pump adds fuel as the boost comes up.

with the diaphragm assembly removed look at the bottom of the body there is a toothed spring seat on a threaded section of the body. this pushes back against the boost pressure. wind it up to increase the resistance to boost slowing the fuel ramp rate and wind it down to increase it.

In response.
1/ if you set timing by sliding a bolt/gauge through the front of the IP you will never actually be spot on - just close enough as to be okay. The only way to spot on time a 300tdi is via setting the plunger lift.

2/Aneroid or Boost Compensator is the jigger on the top of the IP with a boost line running around to the turbo. It increases fuel delivery as boost pressure increases. This is so the engine doesnt smoke excessively off boost. The eccentric cone beneath the actual aneroiddiaphragm adjust fuel delivery rate as function of changing boost conditions. Someplace on the web is a great tuning article that explains it better than I can. I have it as PDF if you cannot find it (pm me) but search along the lines of "300tdi Bosch VE injector pump tuning"

3/ There is no timing screw as a part of the plunger lift. You simple adjust the drive plate and pulley at the front of the IP to effectively advance or retard the pump relative to the belt (fixed at TDC)

Daves suggestion which is likely spot on is that the primary fuel delivery screw has been increased since rebuild (hopefully it is still safety wired from factory) but your symptoms may suggest it has been adjusted. And then the boost compensator (aneroid) is pooched such that it is over fueling in low boost conditions. I would argue it is very hard to tune a 300 without boost and EGTs but Im sure someone will claim to have mojo to do it. If your primary fuel delivery screw has been altered you will have some fun setting it without an EGT.

I think you either need to do a lot of reading on 300 tuning or find someone who knows what they are doing. In my opinion unless your tuner is putting a temporary EGT in place while tuning you should maybe find another diesel tech????

Steve

Originally Posted by roverrescue

In response.
1/ if you set timing by sliding a bolt/gauge through the front of the IP you will never actually be spot on - just close enough as to be okay. The only way to spot on time a 300tdi is via setting the plunger lift.

2/Aneroid or Boost Compensator is the jigger on the top of the IP with a boost line running around to the turbo. It increases fuel delivery as boost pressure increases. This is so the engine doesnt smoke excessively off boost. The eccentric cone beneath the actual aneroiddiaphragm adjust fuel delivery rate as function of changing boost conditions. Someplace on the web is a great tuning article that explains it better than I can. I have it as PDF if you cannot find it (pm me) but search along the lines of "300tdi Bosch VE injector pump tuning"

3/ There is no timing screw as a part of the plunger lift. You simple adjust the drive plate and pulley at the front of the IP to effectively advance or retard the pump relative to the belt (fixed at TDC)

Daves suggestion which is likely spot on is that the primary fuel delivery screw has been increased since rebuild (hopefully it is still safety wired from factory) but your symptoms may suggest it has been adjusted. And then the boost compensator (aneroid) is pooched such that it is over fueling in low boost conditions. I would argue it is very hard to tune a 300 without boost and EGTs but Im sure someone will claim to have mojo to do it. If your primary fuel delivery screw has been altered you will have some fun setting it without an EGT.

I think you either need to do a lot of reading on 300 tuning or find someone who knows what they are doing. In my opinion unless your tuner is putting a temporary EGT in place while tuning you should maybe find another diesel tech????

Steve

Steve -
Thanks for the offer of the article on adjusting the manifold pressure compensator (what the Bosch manual calls the aneroid), hiowever I downloaded a copy some time back. I haven't done any fiddling with that yet as I wanted to get the pump working in standard setting before doing further adjustment.

I get your point that the pump can't be calibrated correctly unless it is fit to the vehicle, as it must be set to TDC - and that's a relationship within the engine itself and not something theoretical that can be fully set on the bench.

Based on your advice as well as Dave's, I've decided to drive the landie to my pump guy for a more detailed discussion of how he set it up - and more to the point, a discussion on what he intends to do to get it running properly. If he's fafffed about with the max fuel screw or aneroid, then he needs to adjust those with the pump on the engine to get it to behave the way it should.