Thread: Rear diff lock much advantage with traction control?

Originally Posted by numpty

I find this intriguing.

My Td5 Defender has traction control and after doing a number of Simpson trips (Edjit Tours) I have "never" had a problem with TC in the sand. TC is unable to be disengaged in Defender anyway.

I don't do rocks much either and have come to the conclusion that I don't need a diff lock.

Hi numpty,

We discussed this issue or non-issue as some would have it at length a couple of times.

It certainly appears that the pre-2012 Puma and D3 has the ability to brake all 4 wheels at the same time with its TC when all 4 are spinning (example sand). Going up a dune this would obviously rob all your momentum and then as the TC lets go, the car end up digging before the TC grips again.

This is however solved by good old fashioned sand driving precautions and technique... Soft tyres and correct application of power will obviously get you almost anywhere without the aid (or hindrance) of the TC system.

Back to the OP's question... I broke a diff on my 90 (entirely my fault, not the car's as many would claim) and in replacing it I wanted to opt for a 4 pin arrangement. I looked at Ashcroft's first, both locker and ATB LSD but limited warranty (even though you most probably won't need it) and a general unwillingness by Perth workshops to fit them I ended up with the brand new version of the ARB Airlocker (no plastic bits, better air delivery etc).

Purchase of the locker and small compressor and having it fitted with ARB's 5 year warranty cost me less than the indie quotes to fit the Ashcroft diff after I sourced and supplied it!

The verdict however is that I've never needed to use the locker as the 90 Puma's TC is absolutely spectacular (tried it with and without, but the jury's still out...). If I had the skills to fit a diff and had to do it again, I would most probably just fit an Ashcroft 4 pin open diff or maybe the ATB LSD as its not that much more than the standard 4 pin diff.

To start I would certainly spend my money on something other than diff upgrades at this stage!

Cheers,

Lou

Are you sure the D3 was turning the traction control off or the Hill Decent Control off?

I can easily imagine turning the HDC off.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

On our Simpson trip, I noticed the guy with a D3 repeatedly having to turn off his traction control in the dunes.

You cannot turn Traction Control off - he was probably turning his Stability Control off which is understandable as it may cut power in some circumstances.

Originally Posted by Loubrey

D3 has the ability to brake all 4 wheels at the same time with its TC when all 4 are spinning (example sand).

That is not how TC works - it only works when wheels are rotating at different speeds so if all wheels were spinning TC will not kick in.

Garry

Originally Posted by garrycol

That is not how TC works - it only works when wheels are rotating at different speeds so if all wheels were spinning TC will not kick in.

Garry

Garry,

Not arguing about how the TC's working, but taking a run up and powering up a dune, the wheels are unlikely to encounter the same amount of resistance and thus rotation speed when they start spinning.

I've seen early Pumas come to a complete standstill up a dune they should be able to climb without any hassle and in fact all 300Tdi's and even TC equipped Td5's climbed without issues.

I've done LOTS of sand driving in places like the Kalahari and Namib desert in my 300 Tdi 90 and I fancy my chances at being able to do it. I've however had to take out my Puma's ABS fuse to disable the TC on the odd occasion to get through some of the powdery running sand we get here on the West Coast of WA.

Like I said, we've "argued" this point on a number of occasions and I'm not too keen to get into it again. I'm a massive fan of the Puma Defender and its TC, but I do believe its got its limitations in one or two isolated circumstances.

Cheers,

Lou

He said he was having to remember to turn the TC off after restarting or exceeding 40 km/h as it was braking spinning wheels and the vehicle was losing momentum.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

He said he was having to remember to turn the TC off after restarting or exceeding 40 km/h as it was braking spinning wheels and the vehicle was losing momentum.

This is DSC not Traction Control - as i said you cannot turn TC off but the DSC switch is on the dash and it reactivates each time you change something. i would say he just got his terminology mixed up.

Originally Posted by Loubrey

Like I said, we've "argued" this point on a number of occasions and I'm not too keen to get into it again.
Lou

Hi Lou - maybe you need to go back and review TC 101. - said in the nicest possible way.

Originally Posted by Loubrey

snip
This is however solved by good old fashioned sand driving precautions and technique... Soft tyres and correct application of power will obviously get you almost anywhere without the aid (or hindrance) of the TC system.
Lou

This "correct application of power" is IMHO the most important aspect of getting the most out of your TC and after driving non TC equipped 4WDs for over 40 years took me some time to master.