FRONT WHEEL HUB SEALS BEGAN LEAKING AGAIN!

**lr110qld** · 19th December 2014, 04:29 PM

From the beginning Land Rover had oil lubricated wheel bearings and cv's.

When this was changed to grease, they replaced the oil seal in the hubs to a grease seal.

The grease seal doesn't prevent leakage in either direction (lubrication leaks out and contaminants leak in) near as well as the double lip oil seal (RTC3511 as per Judo's post above).

The grease doesn't lubricate the wheel bearings or splines as well as oil.

It is a good bet that the dealer is replacing the inferior grease seals with the same type. Replace them with RTC3511 seals as per Judo's post if you want better seals. You may find that the contaminant that have leaked in has worn a groove where the single lip of the grease seal runs on the spindle. When fitting the double lip seal, it can usually be fitted in the hub so the lips don't run in the old wear groove.

The above applies to the hub seal, front and rear. If the leak is from the swivel seal, that often results from worn or poorly adjusted swivel pin bearings.

**gitney** · 19th December 2014, 05:48 PM

Hi voltron,
It sounds really similar to what happened to mine when I had it. If it's your front swivel hubs then mine were replaced twice and they tinkered with tensioning them etc. but eventually it turned out to be an oil seal in the diff leaking diff oil into the swivel hub. Not sure if this is what is wrong with yours but it sounds similar.

**steane** · 19th December 2014, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by voltron

Lots of grease was thrown all over the place for the first two changes. It didnt get to that stage on the 3rd one, they just agreed to do the bearings and seals again when I showed them it was leaking. I realise there is an acceptable amount of leaking from what I have been told but they have been outside of that so LR agreed they needed to be done again. The last time the mechanic said some tensioners were either not done up enough or were overdone, I can't remember, Im not even sure what he was talking about but they were certain this is what had contributed to the leaking. Also on the second change they had said the wrong grease was used. It will be interesting what they come up with this time. I dont get angry or upset at them over these things, at the end of the day, the mechanics and staff didnt build or design the car, but I am definately getting over the amount of back and forth into the workshop and the inconvenience that comes with that. I also could take it to all 4x4 but then I am wearing the cost of the repair I guess and potential voiding warranty if I do that.

I run oil in the swivels on my 110 and they don't leak a drop. The 'tensioners' are probably the shims that set the swivel preload. Get that wrong and the swivels will leak oil, especially at highway speed as it's thrown around by the CV (don't ask me how I know...). I would have thought you'd notice a change in the feel of the steering if they were mucking around with the swivel preload though.

**voltron** · 19th December 2014, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by PAT303

What seals are you talking about?,I can't see how grease could come out of the hubs,tensioners????,can you tell us were the grease is coming from,from behind the brakes or from the swivel hubs. Pat

From the swivel hubs Pat.

**voltron** · 19th December 2014, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by gitney

Hi voltron,
It sounds really similar to what happened to mine when I had it. If it's your front swivel hubs then mine were replaced twice and they tinkered with tensioning them etc. but eventually it turned out to be an oil seal in the diff leaking diff oil into the swivel hub. Not sure if this is what is wrong with yours but it sounds similar.

The mechanic that keeps spotting this tells me the same thing, I cringe when he tells me to come over and have a look at this because it always puts a smile on his face when he spots something wrong with the Defender. He drives a Pajero

and thinks they should replace the whole diff, but I've never heard of anyone getting away with that done.

**voltron** · 19th December 2014, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by steane

I run oil in the swivels on my 110 and they don't leak a drop. The 'tensioners' are probably the shims that set the swivel preload. Get that wrong and the swivels will leak oil, especially at highway speed as it's thrown around by the CV (don't ask me how I know...). I would have thought you'd notice a change in the feel of the steering if they were mucking around with the swivel preload though.

Cant say I notice anything different in the steering, but Im not that attuned to my car yet. Give me time.

2stroke · 19th December 2014, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by gitney

Hi voltron,
It sounds really similar to what happened to mine when I had it. If it's your front swivel hubs then mine were replaced twice and they tinkered with tensioning them etc. but eventually it turned out to be an oil seal in the diff leaking diff oil into the swivel hub. Not sure if this is what is wrong with yours but it sounds similar.

These are the ones in the axle housing just inboard of the CVs. They stop diff oil running down into the swivel housing and hub and washing out the grease.

**PAT303** · 20th December 2014, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by voltron

From the swivel hubs Pat.

Mate you posted they were wheel hubs,the seals do leak,the reason they use grease,they are not setting the bearing pre-load correctly most likely,I set them right at the min limit and run them for a week to settle and do it again,mine do not leak at all,if you drop the steering rod off and the hub assembly moves under it's own wieght they are too loose and will leak. Pat

**voltron** · 20th December 2014, 10:08 AM

My mechanical knowledge and terminology on these sorts of things are very limited. Ask me anything about a petrol motor and turbo's and I can happily join in the conversationa. All I keep getting told is there is oil and grease leaking from the left and right wheel hubs. So I ask specifically and he replies swivel hubs. I guess he assumes I know what he is talking about.

**lr110qld** · 20th December 2014, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by voltron

From the swivel hubs Pat.

The misunderstanding here is because of your terminology is a little mixed up.

The hub is what the wheel and brake disc are bolted to. It houses the wheel bearings that rotate on the spindle that in turn is bolted to the swivel housing.

The swivel housing is not a hub.

For many years, the swivels and cv's were oil lubricated. Those early housings had an oil level plug. Oil migrating from the diff housing didn't cause the swivel seals to leak. They would however leak if the swivel housing was not ventilated, or the swivel bearings were worn and not adjusted properly. Land Rover changed to grease for lubrication of the swivels and cv.

Grease doesn't leak as readily as oil, but the cause of leakage is the same. If oil is migrating from the diff housing to the swivel housing, then leaking from the swivel seal, the problem is not only the seal on the half shaft that allowed the oil to migrate, but also the swivel bearing adjustment and swivel seal.

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