Thread: Putting a little oil in every tank.....

im guessing your referring to 2 stroke oil
diesel these days has much less sulphur in it as it's bad for the environment as a side effect diesel has less lubricity than it used to.
Some people add 2 stroke oil to help lubricate their fuel system in diesel engines
If you use good quality diesel , (shell BP ultimate), you shouldn't need to
Some people swear by it
I use crd fuel enhancer I find it quietens down the tappetty rattle I get on my 2.4 at certain revs

Originally Posted by jackdef90

im guessing your referring to 2 stroke oil
diesel these days has much less sulphur in it as it's bad for the environment as a side effect diesel has less lubricity than it used to.
Some people add 2 stroke oil to help lubricate their fuel system in diesel engines
If you use good quality diesel , (shell BP ultimate), you shouldn't need to
Some people swear by it
I use crd fuel enhancer I find it quietens down the tappetty rattle I get on my 2.4 at certain revs

Talk to me about that Jack....what's the go? What does CRD stand for....and are you aware of what the fuel enhancer is actually doing? I'm very keen to keep protecting the fuel system and engine as much as I can. 2008 2.4TDCi Puma.

I got sent this a while back and it relates to two stroke additive:
Any saffa translation required just ask (bakkie = Ute):

Due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negative impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
One more information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.
I also dug this up from another forum, apologies for plagiarism to the original author.
I did a lot of reasearch on 2 stroke oil in diesel engines.
It seems our american cousins are already wise to the benefits of a drop of 2 stroke oil.
Anyway the science is well proven , it burns more completely than diesel , reduces engine smoke to virtually nothing , cleans the combustion chamber , it appears to lubricate the egr valves to close more evenly.
(I had a lazy egr valve one side but it's not lazy any more)
I've used it for a few months now in my RRS and the wifes A4 tdi.
Much quieter when cold ,much better throttle response . no smoke unless I drive like a test pilot when I get a light haze from the pipes instead of the smoke I used to get.The throttle response is thebig difference.
It is more lively and the gearbox doesnt hunt up and down at all.
just 300mL of 2 stroke oil in a full tank really does give you wings.

??This has in the last two years gained a lot of momentum in Germany, after they started mixing 5% bio diesel with the normal diesel fuel. Now bio diesel in Germany is a mixture of raps seed oil and ethanol. This makes the concoction hygroscopic, i.e. it will absorb moisture (water!!!).
You now get an idea why there is such a high failure rate on VHP pumps and injectors on CRD engines in Europe.
This whole concept of mixing 2-stroke oil with diesel is nothing new. It started in Scandinavia and Northern USA among the fishermen' fleets in Winter.
But in our south african context, we first have to get a proper understanding about the quality of diesel:
1. Normal diesel is 500ppm sulphur content - Cetane - lower
2. Premium diesel is 50ppm sulphur content - Cetane - higher
3. "African countries diesel (Sadec countries and further north) can be anything up to 8000ppm sulphur content

If we now go back to the olden days of 10-15 years ago, it was not uncommon for diesel in SA to have a 3000ppm sulphur content. In those days one had to change the oil every 5000km as otherwise one ended up with a jelly like substance in the engine, also called the black death or sludge.
I am now going back to the topic at hand. The highest cetane rating in SA diesel is found in the Sasol 50ppm diesel. This 50ppm diesel (irrespective of brand) also has a reduced lubrication property which leads to defective injectors, see for example Toyota 3 litre bakkie engines.
In two-stroke oil we get 4 different quality ratings, which are based on the JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Org.) scale:
JASO-FA very basic single grade SAE30 or SAE40 based 2-stroke oil (premix only)
JASO-FB Used for most premix industrial 2-stroke engines and scooters
JASO-FC "Low ash burn" used for separate oil injection and most outboard motors. this oil can be mineral or part synthetic
JASO-FD This is fully synthetic 2-stroke oil for racing engines. It is not suitable for mixing with diesel, because a) too expensive and b) not compatible with cats and particle filters.
For All Series LR and Disco1 and 2 a Jaso-FB rated oil is fine. For Disco 3 and 4 a JASO-FC rated oil has to be used, such as the Fuchs oil.
Now in order to provide better lubrication but at the same time also better power delivery from the engines, the ideal solution seems to be to add 2-stroke oil (see above) in a mixing ratio of 1:200 i.e. 500ml per 100lt diesel.
This will increase the cetane rating by 3-5 points and will provide the following benefits:
1. Much better and more complete combustion (lower EGT)
2. Self cleaning of engine internals, as JASO-FC compliant 2-stroke oil burns cleaner and better than diesel. Due to this there is also about a 3-5% gain in fuel economy.
3. Sufficient lubrication of high pressure components in the diesel injection system.
4. Much quieter starting in the morning and smoother running
5. Reduced smoking
6. In engines with particle filter "burn free" action is reduced from every 600-700km to between every 1200-2000km
7. Much lower "clowd content" of diesel exhaust fumes typically from 0.95 down to 0.47. This is measured in Germany at the T?V.
8. Large government fleets in Germany report fleet reliability (MB Cdi, BMW CRD, Audi Tdi etc. etc. to exceed 400'000km WITHOUT VHP pump or injector failures

So the above deliberations give some well documented indication, why adding 2-stroke oil to diesel is such a clever move.
I run my 1999 Disco1 300Tdi on Sasol 50ppm diesel with a 1:200 mixing ratio of Sasol Corwa-120 2-stroke oil added.
I get on long distance travel fully loaded between 8.9 to 10.8lt/100km depending on how heavy my right foot is. I have done a number of trips with 1000km per (standard capacity) tank.

False - Sulphur is NOT a lubricant...

What happened was when the process to remove Sulphur is done the components that assisted lubrication suffered.

The additives in diesel are added to replace that which is lost in the refining process.


Also, OLD fuel pumps etc were designed for the fuel available at the time, just as OLD cast iron heads didnt need inserts when there was lead in petrol.

When these items changed, the construction and design of the components was also updated..

Modern Alloy heads have Stellite valve inserts etc in Petrol engines to remove the issue.

Modern diesel pumps, injectors etc are designed with materials to suit.

As an example - a TD5 was designed factory to run happily on Kerosene..
A far less lubricating fluid than a LSD...

So do the knowledgable masses (which doesn't include me) think adding 2 stroke oil to a tank of gas a good thing or not?

Adding 2 Stroke Oil to Diesel


There are a lot of arguments, mostly on motoring forums, about whether or not to add 2 stroke oil to diesel powered vehicles. The main argument is that this will improve the lubricity of the fuel, particularly low sulphur(50ppm/10ppm) diesel.
Sulphur occurs naturally in oil. It is undesirable for various reasons. The main reason is that the sulphur from the exhaust pipe forms sulphuric acid in the atmosphere which results in acid rain. In the vehicle it pollutes the engine oil reducing its life. Using a low sulphur diesel reduces both the environmental pollution and the pollution of engine oil. In order to produce low sulphur diesel, the sulphur has to be removed and the process that removes the sulphur reduces the lubricity of the diesel. Diesel pumps and injectors rely on this to keep them lubricated.
Should I add 2 Stroke Oil to my diesel to improve its lubricity?

In short, you shouldn't. 2 Stroke Oil is designed for 2 stroke motorcycle engines, not 4 stroke vehicles. Vehicle manufacturers and fuel refining companies all agree that running 2 Stroke Oil in fuel is likely to cause complications and there have been reports of engine failures due to 2 Stroke Oil sludging up valves and fouling injectors. As fuel refineries have produced lower sulphur diesel, so too have they added lubrication substitutes to the new diesels to the point that lubrication is now even higher than that of high sulphur diesel.
The vehicle manufacturers don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel...
The fuel companies don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel...
The 2 Stroke Oil manufacturers don't recommend putting 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel, therefore logic dictates that there is no reason to put 2 Stroke Oil in your diesel!

For a detailed study on adding 2-stroke oil to diesel, please see link below. This is the most substantive, peer-reviewed study done to date that doesn't rely on anecdotal evidence.
Better lubricity, cleaner burning fuel, cleaner oil and cleaner air means there is no reason for any vehicle to run 500ppm diesel instead of 50ppm, nor to add 2 Stroke Oil to aid in lubrication.


2-Stroke Oil In Diesel ? A Technical Study


It IS worth noting that people claim the engine sounds quieter - a product of the Cetane rating changing slightly...

The higher the Cetane number the more easily the fuel will combust in a diesel engine. The characteristic diesel "knock" occurs when fuel that has been injected into the cylinder ignites after a delay causing a late shock wave. Reducing this delay results in less unburned fuel in the cylinder and less intense knock. Therefore higher-cetane fuel usually causes an engine to run more smoothly and quietly. This does not translate into longevity nor does it necessarily translate into greater efficiency, although it may in some vehicles in certain conditions.

Consider that our CI engines are computer controlled timing (and dont have knock sensors) altering the combustion timing can have an adverse effect on performance, EGTs and consumption.

Originally Posted by The Cone of Silence

Talk to me about that Jack....what's the go? What does CRD stand for....and are you aware of what the fuel enhancer is actually doing? I'm very keen to keep protecting the fuel system and engine as much as I can. 2008 2.4TDCi Puma.

Common rail diesel enhancer, it's is basically a cetane booster, but it works the same way as 2 st oil by lubricating you fuel system, you just need a lot less of it, I have a 90 so 60 L tank, I add 5ml for a full tank, and it feels and sounds a lot better, also it seems to be an almost immediate improvement.
I don't use it every tank.

The 2010 Defender brochure on page 11 specifically notes that "a unique engine tune has been developed to allow it to tolerate the variable quality, high-sulphur fuels to be found across developing markets" and says to "check your dealer for availability". In other words, not in Australia. So if you are thinking of artificially increasing the sulphur content of your fuel then it may not be the best approach unless you go to the trouble of getting the specialised mapping and accepting the compromises that may bring.

TDCi engines are designed to run on modern diesel fuel, so feed them what they were designed to run on. These engines are highly sophisticated and the engineers who designed them were not stupid. Modifying your fuel is likely to "incur consequences". And if your vehicle is under warranty then you can kiss that good-bye, just like you'd have to if you accidentally filled up with petrol instead of diesel.