Thread: The philosophical 2018 Land Rover Series VI / Defender / 'Icon'...

Originally Posted by gusthedog

Case by case there may be differences. Some may have realised early on but others would be unaware. But after you spent that much on a leaky, dusty car with bad air-conditioning, you soon become captured . It's that first morning after a heavy rain and you find the passenger footwell full of water that it starts to sink in. But then you've spent so much money getting the car and apart from "insert problem here" it's a really great 4wd. Then before you know it, your subconscious forces you to love the car. Because if you sat back and actually thought objectively for a moment and realised that you'd spent all that hard earned on a loud, uncomfortable car that some psychotic designer into S&M designed the handbrake location for, you'd probably have an episode....



Pricey

Or you can go in with your eyes wide open knowing full well all the pitfalls and compromises of ownership before purchase, but you do it because it fulfils your needs like no other vehicle.

Originally Posted by AndyG

Almost sounds like your saying that only Defenders wave being scarce LAnd Rovers, whilst main stream Discovery's are not Land Rovers, and hence dont wave.

I'll ignore the gratuitous Disco-bashing and try to answer your question. When Disco's were relatively scarce most driver's waved because they were Land Rovers. They were mostly driven by enthusiasts who were either fans of the marque or into 4wding, so there was that shared bond.

Now the world has moved on and the market has changed. 4wds have developed mass appeal and because the Disco is such a good vehicle it appeals to a larger part of the market. So now the majority are bought by people who see it as just another car. There's nothing wrong with that. We need these those people for the brand's survival. However some are still bought by enthusiasts, such as myself and most of the people on this forum. Some owners become enthusiasts after buying them because there is still something about all Land Rovers that set them apart and get under your skin.

What makes them Land Rovers is their engineering excellence and class leading capability - not a bunch of beardies waving at each other.

Cheers,
Jon

Originally Posted by MrLandy

Thanks Jon, yes well that question is what this thread is intended to be about. I dont pretend to have all the answers, but I'd really enjoy a philosophical discussion about it with those who think it's important or interesting....

Land Rover identifies the Marque's core values as:
Individualism
Authenticity
Freedom
Adventure
Guts
Supremacy

So you may be closer than you realise, but I think you're assigning some values to the brand that aren't really there. The values you perceive have come about because the Defender has not been updated for so long and is now an anachronism in the modern world. I get it though - its a big part of the reason I've just bought one.

Originally Posted by MrLandy

Is there room for one vehicle in the world that bucks the trend of mass consumption?

Not at a price you'd be willing to pay.

The most significant vehicles in Land Rover's history have all been somewhat revolutionary, think the original Land Rover, original Range Rover and the Discovery 3/4 which has brought a whole raft of new technologies to mainstream 4wds. Now with the Range Rover they have moved to aluminium monocoques - something of a revolution for this type of vehicle.

This is the way the new Defender should head. It needs to be revolutionary, which probably means a lot of people won't like it.

Cheers,
Jon

Originally Posted by jon3950

The most significant vehicles in Land Rover's history have all been somewhat revolutionary, think the original Land Rover, original Range Rover and the Discovery 3/4 which has brought a whole raft of new technologies to mainstream 4wds. Now with the Range Rover they have moved to aluminium monocoques - something of a revolution for this type of vehicle.

This is the way the new Defender should head. It needs to be revolutionary, which probably means a lot of people won't like it.

Cheers,
Jon

Even the 90/110/127/130 were revolutionary as they brought car like handling and ride comfort (remember they used very soft rate springs and the Boge Hydromat load leveller for the first few years) to the commercial/farm market.

Most all commercial/farm 4WD's used semi-eliptic leaf suspension all round (and most still use them on the back)
Land Rover went to full time 4WD around 1980 and coils plus full time 4WD in '83.
That was more than evolution at the time, even though it was basically a Series body plonked on Rangie running gear.

Originally Posted by rick130

Even the 90/110/127/130 were revolutionary as they brought car like handling and ride comfort (remember they used very soft rate springs and the Boge Hydromat load leveller for the first few years) to the commercial/farm market.

Most all commercial/farm 4WD's used semi-eliptic leaf suspension all round (and most still use them on the back)
Land Rover went to full time 4WD around 1980 and coils plus full time 4WD in '83.
That was more than evolution at the time, even though it was basically a Series body plonked on Rangie running gear.

And that was at what was probably the worst time in Land Rovers history in terms of funding for new vehicle development.

Thanks jon3950. You bring a level of pragmatism that has been needed in this thread. However I don't think that JLR will let the market lead it by the nose. Rather they will make a NEW product that the market can't resist.

Originally Posted by cuppabillytea

Thanks jon3950. You bring a level of pragmatism that has been needed in this thread. However I don't think that JLR will let the market lead it by the nose. Rather they will make a NEW product that the market can't resist.

Exactly, but there will be a market shift...

The beardy types won't like it, (LOL, I have a beard...), but very few of them are new car buyers now anyway, so why should Land Rover cater to them?

Either way they'll kill it...

Talk about kill it. You guys love killing a discussion don't you. Yeah yeah, new Defender will be awesome fanboys. Yeah kill what could be a fascinating philosophical discussion with mechanical / financial pragmatism, just like every other thread on this site. Wo behold that the discussion might go in another direction! ...Nah JLR won't be led by the market pffftttt. Seriously?

Where are the Beardy philosophers around here anyway?