Oil colour after service?

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Originally Posted by Babs

Wow this is very educational for the Nube, great info guys. Thank you.

However can we get it broken down in point form as to why Penrite HPR Diesel 5 5W-40 Semi Synthetic is preferred over the 5W-40 Full Synthetic ❓❓❓

Appreciated ✅

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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OK, neither oil is an approved Ford oil, i.e. it hasn't been submitted to Ford for testing.
The 5w-40 full syn is an approved BMW and MB oil, as it states the approvals.

The Penrite lube guide recommends HPR5 5w-40 over the HPR5 diesel, personally I'd go the other way as the HPR5 Diesel meets the (now obsolete) API CI-4+ spec, which is a bloody good US heavy duty diesel oil spec. It has a high detergency/dispersancy level and very good anti-wear characteristics.
It also meets the European ACEA E7 spec, which is pretty good but has been surpassed by ACEA E6 and E9, which specify a slightly better wear and soot handling spec. and are suitable for DPF.

https://www.lubrizol.com/assets/0/29...07a.png?n=1651
This comparison illustrates how both sequences are expected to provide similar performance in terms of bore polishing and piston cleanliness. However, ACEA E9-12 is expected to provide a higher level of performance in terms of corrosion protection, soot handling, aftertreatment compatibility and wear protection than ACEA E7-12. (from Lubrizol)

The 5w-40 syn only meets the US API diesel CF spec, which is twenty years obsolete.
It also meets the ACEA A3/B4 spec which is current for most Euro light diesels and probably more pertinent for this comparison.
It'd be a very good oil, it has a high TBN so can meet the extended drains the Euro manufacturers are specifying but generally speaking a HD diesel oil is more robust than most all dual rated but petrol biased oils.

Either oil will protect very well, but without testing I'd take a guess the HPR5 Diesel would provide lower wear numbers in the long term with better soot handling and not exceeding 10,000km drains.

If you were going the full 20,000km oil change interval it'd be interesting to see if the full syn came out in front due to better oxidative stability.

This is all based on a guestimate from looking at the spec sheets, nothing more.
The only way to know for sure would be real world testing.

How's that for CYA ? :D

I've had a look at the website and the HPRDiesel 5 SAE 5W-40,semi syn is the primary recommendation for LR TD5,Ford and Mazda, but the preferred (by Penrite) oil is HPR 5 SAE 5W-40 full synthetic . For Transit Duratorc 2.2 you must use spec:
WSS-M2C913-D,which is the full synthetic HPR 5 SAE 5W-40.They also recommend using their engine flush every oil change.
MY HEAD HURTS:bangin:

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Originally Posted by Babs

Wow this is very educational for the Nube, great info guys. Thank you.

However can we get it broken down in point form as to why Penrite HPR Diesel 5 5W-40 Semi Synthetic is preferred over the 5W-40 Full Synthetic ❓❓❓

Appreciated ✅

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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*Its not really a question of an oil labeled 'full synthetic" over one thats labeled "semi synthetic".
*Its also not about one brand over another brand, I'd hazard a guess that if two oils are meeting the same spec and got tested, the difference may not even be detectable (thats a thought worth doing, if samples can be given to a testing company and see if they can be tested for more than just impurities (metal, sand etc).
*Its really lets face it, my opinion and nothing more.
*Regardless of a label stating "Approved by" or not, if it meets the specifications it wont negate your warranty.
*With all the info I see with regards to Castrol, their technical data doesnt state its Ford or other wise approved.
*The Ford spec for the later Duratorq 2.2 says to use an engine oil meeting spec 913-D for extended oil drain intervals (again is this just meeting better environmental specs?).
*The Land Rover data only goes to saying an oil meeting the Ford 913-B spec.

I'm not suggesting the oil labeled "semi synthetic" is better than an oil labeled "full synthetic", what I am saying is for a particular application it's a better choice, in this case an engine that:
*Is not particularly hi-tech for a common rail diesel.
*Doesnt do much work, considering the high torque it produces compared to the weight it pushes along. (lets face it, any modern common rail diesel really is grossly over powered for the vehicle it's in (and we wouldnt want it any other way right?)).
*Pushes along a vehicle, just upto the shops and back, school and back, work and back.

IMHO I think the oil labeled "full synthetic" is prolly going to do its job too well in an engine that is only moderately at most stressed. Its a point "Tank" (Frank) was pointing to with regards to full synthetic oils in a given application that they work too well at providing metal on metal protection, its not allowing an engine to run-in, wear progressively as it should. Honestly I wouldnt see an issue really to running an engine oil labeled "full synthetic" over the one labeled "semi synthetic".

Like I said, its my own thoughts and observations and nothing more. yet over the years I'm seeing more examples of issues that I'm now starting to believe its that combination of an engine oil that is doing its job far too well so to speak in an engine that does very little to no workload on a daily basis year after year.

I've had a few TD5 engines, R/RA/A 428 engines (Jeep), OM642 engines (Jeep) all very similar common rail diesel tech levels, that have been run on a "full synthetic" engine oil for a lifetime (round that 200-250K) and were doing a bit of light blue smoke (burning oil), I've changed a few over to a "semi synthetic" engine oil and they have started to come good, either within a few 100kms or by the next oil change.

The Duratorq engine again is a nice level of tech, its not really that far past a TD5 engine and all the ones I look after seem to run exceptionally well and I believe will do so for a long time.

But with all that BS aside, an old school thing always taught was;
*Give a diesel engine the 3 basics: Clean air, Clean fuel, Clean oil and it will last a lifetime. Its still basically true but it was prolly said back in the days when the only diesels were trucks and tractors that were used as work vehicles/tools. It really doesnt take into account how a modern (high torque producing) diesel engine is used in light vehicles on a daily basis of short runs with little to no workload.

I really dont know if all that gells or not or is of any use, but if nothing else it's a relatively (midly) interesting topic.

Regard
Daz

Daz,

A little off topic but are there any considerations to mindful of during the wear-in process of a new 2.2 in terms of driving style?

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Originally Posted by AlecW

Daz,

A little off topic but are there any considerations to mindful of during the wear-in process of a new 2.2 in terms of driving style?

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Honestly I think the build standard and machining tolerances even on mass produced engine far exceed that of old, so I dont think any particular driving style will be needed for a new modern engine.

The basics still apply and most manufactures do have a recommended driving method listed in the hand book;
*Drive moderately at different speeds and dont do large long kms at highway speed for that typically first 1500kms or so.
*Keep rpm to a limit of about 3000rpm (so just under that sweet gear change point for a Defender TDCi) but dont labour the engine, so dont use 5th in a 80kmph zone, 4th is a better choice, dont use 6th for freeway 100kmph, 5th is a better choice.
*Dont sit there is the morning with the vehicle idling to "warm it up", it doesnt, it will get to correct operating temp with light acceleration.
*If you want to do the occasional high rpm to see how it accelerates, do so when its at normal operating temp.
*Light to moderate driving for that for 1500kms will also allow other components to bed in correctly such as brakes.
*Check under bonnet fluid levels weekly.
*Do an oil change at prolly 5000kms, why not the Ol 1000kms first oil change? As already mentioned build quality of engines and oil quality is far better than it was 30 or 40 years ago. But there will still be metal particles from that initial running, it would prolly also be fine to extend that first change to 10,000kms giving you any easy to remember engine oil change interval every 10K.
*For a Defender TDCi (puma) change out all driveline fluid levels round that 30,000kms, you will find the Transfer case and especially the diff oils, will be black and metal loaded.

Regards
Daz

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Originally Posted by AlecW

Daz,

A little off topic but are there any considerations to mindful of during the wear-in process of a new 2.2 in terms of driving style?

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Here is a link to a few words on the topic that I wrote a while back. Had done a lot of reading. It may be good advice - It may be terrible advice.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-ri...ml#post2163092

Basically the message is "don't baby them, don't labour them". Apparently they need to work, get on boost, to ensure rings seal properly etc.

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Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

Honestly I think the build standard and machining tolerances even on mass produced engine far exceed that of old, so I dont think any particular driving style will be needed for a new modern engine.

The basics still apply and most manufactures do have a recommended driving method listed in the hand book;
*Drive moderately at different speeds and dont do large long kms at highway speed for that typically first 1500kms or so.
*Keep rpm to a limit of about 3000rpm (so just under that sweet gear change point for a Defender TDCi) but dont labour the engine, so dont use 5th in a 80kmph zone, 4th is a better choice, dont use 6th for freeway 100kmph, 5th is a better choice.
*Dont sit there is the morning with the vehicle idling to "warm it up", it doesnt, it will get to correct operating temp with light acceleration.
*If you want to do the occasional high rpm to see how it accelerates, do so when its at normal operating temp.
*Light to moderate driving for that for 1500kms will also allow other components to bed in correctly such as brakes.
*Check under bonnet fluid levels weekly.
*Do an oil change at prolly 5000kms, why not the Ol 1000kms first oil change? As already mentioned build quality of engines and oil quality is far better than it was 30 or 40 years ago. But there will still be metal particles from that initial running, it would prolly also be fine to extend that first change to 10,000kms giving you any easy to remember engine oil change interval every 10K.
*For a Defender TDCi (puma) change out all driveline fluid levels round that 30,000kms, you will find the Transfer case and especially the diff oils, will be black and metal loaded.

Regards
Daz

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Good stuff, that's what I pretty much did with my Skoda yeti 2ltr hdi. Will take the advice for the initial 5k oil and 30k driveline lubes. Thanks a lot

Here's mine at 22000km, similar appearance to yours. Mine is serviced every 10000km.
Cheers
Adrian

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

So that's 2000km after 20K service Adrian?

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Originally Posted by afb

Here's mine at 22000km, similar appearance to yours. Mine is serviced every 10000km.
Cheers
Adrian

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

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Lookin pretty bloody healthy to me Adrian....