Thread: Re-fitting Defender front radius arms. Help!

Two things I've noticed on RRC front ends, basically the same animal as yours:

1. The Panhard rod bolt at the diff end needs to be seriously tight if there's any difference at all between the bush ID and the bolt diameter. Get someone to rock the steering wheel while you put your hand on the Panhard rod bushes, feel for movement. Maybe get a new bolt and nut and lube it before tightening.

2. Taking a thin shim off each side swivel top bearing is a pretty quick job if the preload is a tad loose, just support the swivel housing to reduce the oil loss while you do this.

Originally Posted by travelrover

Hi Fitzy

Yeah just started, new bushes in panhard rod, and radius arms, all torqued per manual. Wheels not rotated, nothing else changed.

You mentioned tie rods( I assume for track rod).
Did you also replace the tie rods with new ones, or just remove and replace(old tie rods ends)?

If new, ignore my next comment.
If removed and replaced(old tie rod end), I'd dare say tie rod ends.

I recently chased up some front end stuff chasing down my death wobbles(D1), and it turned out to be drag link tie rod ends.
They felt fine for the first 3/4 of their movement(tight and smooth), then they'd slip past that point.

To stop spinning tie rods when doing up the nut:
I use a large piece of wood as leverage for the 'top one', and for bottom mounted tie rod ends, I use the bottle jack on them with a small amount of pressure .. just enough to stop them spinning in their tapered collar, but not so much to bend the rod.

Originally Posted by AK83

You mentioned tie rods( I assume for track rod).
Did you also replace the tie rods with new ones, or just remove and replace(old tie rods ends)?

If new, ignore my next comment.
If removed and replaced(old tie rod end), I'd dare say tie rod ends.

I recently chased up some front end stuff chasing down my death wobbles(D1), and it turned out to be drag link tie rod ends.
They felt fine for the first 3/4 of their movement(tight and smooth), then they'd slip past that point.

To stop spinning tie rods when doing up the nut:
I use a large piece of wood as leverage for the 'top one', and for bottom mounted tie rod ends, I use the bottle jack on them with a small amount of pressure .. just enough to stop them spinning in their tapered collar, but not so much to bend the rod.

Hi Ak83

Track rod yes, i didnt replace (or remove from the rod) removed as a unit and just cleaned up the thread on the rhs one which was being difficult but a couple of mins with a wire wheel sorted that out. The wobbles didnt appear on my first two runs, only the third run.

Death wobbles on my D1 recently drove me totally bonkers. One moment they nearly broke my wrist, the next moment on the same bit of road they wouldn't surface.
In some instances it was so bad, it literally felt like all the front wheel nuts were loose. Would usually start at 80 and I'd have to drop to 60 for them to dissipate and then totally disappear.

I was under the front and had to grab the drag link to empty out my oil leak(another story), and noticed the tight feeling tie rod ends which suddenly went loose as I dropped down and the tie rod ends kind'a then went slip-loose as they twisted.

After I released my oil catch, I went for a drive on a known bumpy road where no traffic would bother me(actually I'd bother them!!)
Got under the front of the car and made sure that I had the drag link 'straight', where the toe rod ends were aligned vertically and drove the bumpy road. No death wobbles up to about 85-90k/h(just above the sped limit and didn't want to push my luck).
Went back to the same spot, under car, and twisted the drag link so that the tie rod ends were both now at a 45-ish degree angle(where they felt like that slipped).
Got to about 60-ish and it started wobbling, and even tho I now knew what the problem was pushed to about 75-ish and wobbled enough for me to head straight to shop to get me some tie rod ends.
Got all 4(track rod too) but only fitted the two for the drag link first up.
Drove my normal route to work up and down about 4 times, and definitely no wobbles and more importantly zero kick when I hit the steel lateral joints in the freeway .. where the steering always kicked back a fair amount.

it wasn't the death wobbles I hated, it was their intermittency... would appear suddenly out of nowhere even on a smooth road ... just minding my own business, being a good motoring citizen driving just under the posted speed limit.
Hitting a bump or join in the road, I'd expect to get the wobbles, and it generally complied.

My thinking was that, because the tie rod ends need such a strong force to remove, maybe they've just been damaged enough to give you the same intermittent issue I was getting.

I checked them early on trying to locate the wobble issue I was getting, and they felt tight. Started looking at panhard rod, changed bushes(to polys)+ bolts, then changed bolts(again) and tightened up just a bit more.
It helped a bit, but the wobbles still came intermittently.
Then they got worse and I bought new radius bush bolts, and was planning to get the bushes soon too. Then I had to get under the car(when I noticed the slack when the ends were extended near their extremities).
Even after I removed them, they still felt tight to move, had to use a bar to get them to near 45° angle then I felt how they went loose.

Originally Posted by AK83

Death wobbles on my D1 recently drove me totally bonkers. One moment they nearly broke my wrist, the next moment on the same bit of road they wouldn't surface.
In some instances it was so bad, it literally felt like all the front wheel nuts were loose. Would usually start at 80 and I'd have to drop to 60 for them to dissipate and then totally disappear.

I was under the front and had to grab the drag link to empty out my oil leak(another story), and noticed the tight feeling tie rod ends which suddenly went loose as I dropped down and the tie rod ends kind'a then went slip-loose as they twisted.

After I released my oil catch, I went for a drive on a known bumpy road where no traffic would bother me(actually I'd bother them!!)
Got under the front of the car and made sure that I had the drag link 'straight', where the toe rod ends were aligned vertically and drove the bumpy road. No death wobbles up to about 85-90k/h(just above the sped limit and didn't want to push my luck).
Went back to the same spot, under car, and twisted the drag link so that the tie rod ends were both now at a 45-ish degree angle(where they felt like that slipped).
Got to about 60-ish and it started wobbling, and even tho I now knew what the problem was pushed to about 75-ish and wobbled enough for me to head straight to shop to get me some tie rod ends.
Got all 4(track rod too) but only fitted the two for the drag link first up.
Drove my normal route to work up and down about 4 times, and definitely no wobbles and more importantly zero kick when I hit the steel lateral joints in the freeway .. where the steering always kicked back a fair amount.

it wasn't the death wobbles I hated, it was their intermittency... would appear suddenly out of nowhere even on a smooth road ... just minding my own business, being a good motoring citizen driving just under the posted speed limit.
Hitting a bump or join in the road, I'd expect to get the wobbles, and it generally complied.

My thinking was that, because the tie rod ends need such a strong force to remove, maybe they've just been damaged enough to give you the same intermittent issue I was getting.

I checked them early on trying to locate the wobble issue I was getting, and they felt tight. Started looking at panhard rod, changed bushes(to polys)+ bolts, then changed bolts(again) and tightened up just a bit more.
It helped a bit, but the wobbles still came intermittently.
Then they got worse and I bought new radius bush bolts, and was planning to get the bushes soon too. Then I had to get under the car(when I noticed the slack when the ends were extended near their extremities).
Even after I removed them, they still felt tight to move, had to use a bar to get them to near 45° angle then I felt how they went loose.

Yup, that description pretty much covers what I was experiencing, but I only needed to slow to 75 kph (indicated, am sure is was going slower than that) for the wobbles to dissipate. What I cant work out is why it didn't present itself on the first two runs over the same roads or were they just working themselves a little loose? Are these the part numbers for what you replaced RTC5870 (lh thread) and RTC5869 (rh thread)?

I noticed that the local Supercheap sell replacement ball joints and was wondering if they would be a suitable replacement as they are in stock according to their website but they seem more expensive than OEM and I have never heard of any of the brands?

Cheers - Simon

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

Sounds like a job for the "ultimate tool"...

I thought you were about to offer your services mitch...

I haven't done my trackrod yet .. only the drag link.
D1 may or may not be different to Defer, so can't help re part types or numbers.
But on the D1, the drag link uses one normal thread and one LH thread.

I remember reading that the defender still used the balljoint on the drop arm for the drag link(same as early RRC used), whereas the D1 uses tie rod ends at both ends of the drag link.

But just having a look at an online parts list, it does seem that you need one normal threaded type and one LH threaded type(RTC5870).
Never makes sense to me why LR bother to make them different to the D1 after all they are basically the same vehicle in that sense.
The normal thread ball joint (RTC5869) is the same one used on the D1 at both ends of the track rod. And the LH thread one(RTC5870) is the one used on the drag link on the D1.

Only reason I haven't fitted mine yet is that the drag like ends turned out to be the problem
.. and I'm going to leave it till I get the chance to get a wheel alignment booked and get wheel alignment chap to fit them.
ie. just do it once, and do it the easy way ... someone else can stuff around with it!

I have looked at supercheap autos website and have never heardof thoses brands.
Best to stick with lemforder or trw.