Reply With QuoteJust thought I would put up this pic whilst on this post
Wizard
SubscriberMan alive (and alive is the key word!) this has got very aggressive over what presents to me (a long term SIII, County and Defender owner) as a very straightforward question.
And for the record, I'm a GP and as interested as anyone in keeping my family alive.
On the safety issue - this car has one of the best safety records imaginable in the UK, but not so good in Australia. The difference? they are slower on back roads over there. All this stuff about side intrusion etc - the things have a solid chassis with outriggers. The "safety" issue is that they are LESS flexible than a modern design. So don't hit anything at high speed. But with a 300TDI that's unlikely!
Now to the original Kid issues :-)
Seatbelts/seating: kids love the rear seats of the Defenders. They have good views even if the seats are slightly less than ideal. The TDI era seats are fine (improved over the Series/County seats) though the Puma seats are much better. I don't know re legroom - the mid row in the Defenders is less than you would think due to being able to seat 4 behind the "rear" seats. That said, I will fit in the rear seats behind a front seat set for me. I'm 5'10 or 178cm.
Aircon: While the AC is routine dissed, it's not that bad. The County AC on the other hand! The TDI era Defenders all have Australian made and installed "factory aftermarket" AC which if gassed and working will do the job. 40 degrees in Qld summer may defeat it - but engine cooling will get you then as well. I have a clear plastic sheet on the cargo barrier so I don't have to AC the load area. I don't know if it works :-). We recently had a trip through northern Qld and the NT. We did run the AC all the way dawn to dusk and things were never cold in the cab, but never hot either. I'm a little puzzled at the earlier SIII comment but then mine had a Tropical Roof - two roof layers with venting between, with controllable vents sucking air from the interior into the midzone space. This was the bees knees of non-AC venting, taking all the hot air out of the cab.
Heat gain through flat glass: don't make me laugh. The windows of the Defender are small and more vertical than most 4wds. They get less overall sun than most. The real heat gain is through the floor. And ALL glass has a SPF of around 50. There is no more risk of sunburn in a Defender than any other car.
Seatbelts: you will need a CRAB - a Child Restraint Accessory Bar. These come variously fitted - I installed mine across the back of the C pillars just above the rear wheel "arch". This means it attaches through steel (the car it came from the mount went through aluminium) and increases side intrusion resistance. For this reason I prefer the longer side-to-side versions - and they also have minimal intrusion into the cargo space unlike the floor mounted versions.
Side intrusion: As someone has mentioned, Rock Sliders will stiffen the side intrusion resistance. Anything above foot level is unnecessary as other vehicles don't come that high.
Rollover: Yep, Defenders are poor at this. So were all 4wds of the era, and all sedans until the 1990s. Manage this as you see fit. I personally think the chance of the issue is relatively low, but a rollcage or at the least a cargo barrier are good options. The plus side is that Defenders have little weight above the chassis level. They are less likely to roll than a stiff and strengthened modern 3 tonne 4wd. Just don't overload the roof.
The general idea is, as has been said, when driving you need to pay attention to your surroundings. You need to get familiar with the front and rear tracking, aim to anticipate what others are going to do (or not do) in a similar way to what a motorcyclist does. The regular incentive is that your brakes and motor are not that hot! The additional issue is that the passive safety is lower in a Defender than many vehicles - so keep your active safety at the highest level.
I've certainly put my money where my mouth is: A total of 3 Land Rover wagons (plus 2 utilities) through my 3 children's childhoods (still ongoing!) I did get rearended on the motorway once: no damage to the Defender, major damage to the little sportscar. I had 3 kids in the car then (2 not mine) and they all regard it as a "Tank" ever since.
Steve
2003 Discovery 2a
In better care:
1992 Defender
1963 Series IIa Ambulance
1977 Series III Ex-Army
1988 County V8
1981 V8 Series 3 "Stage 1"
REMLR No. 215
TopicToaster
Just thought I would put up this pic whilst on this post
95 300 Tdi Defender 90
99 300 Tdi Defender 110
92 Discovery 200tdi
50 Series 1 80
50 Series 1 80
www.reads4x4.com
Wizard
SubscriberRear seat/door edgeOriginally Posted by F3ARED
The CRAB attaches either to the uprights in the photograph (and sorry its lying down) or to the rear wheel arch. This photo is from my previous SIII.
2 door seating
Admittedly from the back of the seats but you can see they all look in and are at the same level.
For forward facing seats you really want a wagon body. I have seen forward facing seats in the back of a utility body - but its awkward to get in and out as well as awkward and limited with the seating.
My current setup includes CRAB, cargo barrier and spare wheels in the rear on the arches - so photo angles that show the CRAB attachment are few. I'll try to post something.
Steve
2003 Discovery 2a
In better care:
1992 Defender
1963 Series IIa Ambulance
1977 Series III Ex-Army
1988 County V8
1981 V8 Series 3 "Stage 1"
REMLR No. 215
Wizard
SubscriberSorry for the mental headspinning in the photos. You will need to compare and contrast versus the first photo above - but adjust for the fact that this is the opposite door and rotated 180 degrees (or therabouts) compared to the other photo. Again - I'm sorry.
The car is red, the CRAB is cream. This compares to the (cream/green) rearmost (or lower in the photo) upright in the first photo. The CRAB bolts onto the rear of the upright. It has a swiveling mount, and the bar attaches to the mount and runs across the back of the car.
Not visible on the photo are the movable plates that wrap around the bar and provide attachment for the child seat.
The same setup works in all Series to Defender wagons with this CRAB. What it amounts to, once you have it in place, are child safety mounts that can be aligned with any or all of the three seats.
I always used the centre seat. I have 2 mounts at that point because it had a seatbeltless booster seat and a H child restraint mounted - try doing THAT with your lesser cars ;-)
Why the centre - its inside the chassis (see all the concerns above!) and you have a little more room for child restraints to project above the front cubby, as well as the capacity to turn around and care for your child from the front passenger seat.
EDIT:
Additional re dogs and vehicle size: the wagon is your best bet, and the ute and wagon bodies are the same size just different interior setups. The unexpected (to most) issue with the utes is that while you can fit the side-facing seats, there is ONLY the rear entry. There is a wall at the front of the ute tray (as you would expect!) whether you fit a ute roof, or full length roof (or canvas per the Army).
And yes, before anyone asks, it's a long reach in to the centre to get your baby in and out. But there are a variety of options and you can stand/hunch inside the car to get the belts on which beats trying to work out how you are going to do it from outside the car if the baby capsule is on the side.
Steve
2003 Discovery 2a
In better care:
1992 Defender
1963 Series IIa Ambulance
1977 Series III Ex-Army
1988 County V8
1981 V8 Series 3 "Stage 1"
REMLR No. 215
Fossicker
Steve, thanks heaps mate thats awesome! Wasnt aware of the firewall behind the rear seats on the 2 door bodies so sadly i think that rules them out. Whilst the sideways facing seats may work with kids old enough to not be in boosters and able to climb their way in, I dont think it will be too suitable for what we will have to face for the foreseeable future. The doggo will grow to be a decently big unit [shes a German Short-haired Pointer] so some space for her is pretty crucial.
Now, to sell some cars off and find a wagon....
Thanks again steve.
N-
Wizard
SubscriberHeh... I was rear ended once (Honda Accord > TDCi DCPU). If you look really hard you can almost make out the spot where he didn't even leave a scratch.
(In fairness - I modified the factory towing kit to substantially raise the bottom edge of the standard "plough blade" and mounted a huge ex-mil nato hitch to the rear crossmember with a load spreader plate behind to reinforce somewhat. The Accord's nose went under the crossmember while he was hard on the brakes)
mod towbar.jpg
Neil
(Really shouldn't be a...) Grumpy old fart!
MY2013 2.2l TDCi Dual Cab Ute
Nulla tenaci invia est via
Sorry it's not clear, but this is the only handy photo on my phone.
See the strap running from the fridge down to the top of the drawers next to the white water bottle - that goes into a ring fitted into the top of the drawers.
So including a tie down in a set of drawers is another option.
Member
Whilst many of the safety concerns raised here are valid and slightly scary, I am happy to take my three kids touring in our 300TDI 130 every school holidays and have never ever felt unsafe.
The Defender is SLOW (generally speaking), its noisy and not especially comfortable, there is no autopilot to lull you into a false sense of security, your driving a glorified tractor and you know it.
Cant speak for aircon as we dont have it (no one has died yet) The kids really like the vehicle, Land Rovers are special and I think kids get that.
if you are wanting to buy a TDI, you no doubt know what you are in for and will drive accordingly.
As for the defender in the bus crash, I think that was just a lesson in how not to drive a Land Rover, or any vehicle.
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