Thread: Another adapter shaft bites the dust

When my Puma was having a new transfer box under warranty I asked the service foreman to ensure the shaft splines were well greased. "It is not a service item" he told me so I'd no idea if it was done or not.
So Aztech4x4 (DazzaTd5) fitted a new OME item and encased it in a bellows to hold the grease in. I was quite happy with that and feel sure the vehicles new owner will get plenty of mileage out of the vehicle before it needs attention.
Shocking design or bad assembly practices by the men on the floor.
A friends 2007 Puma had it's shaft let go at Balladonia ...got in after refuelling to find he had no drive. Lucky it happened there as him and his wife, like the Cook and myself, like to go off to fairly remote places on their own.
He was adamant he never read forums so never knew about it and I think I got the blame for not telling him it could happen. But as he was getting it serviced regularly by a bloke who was apparently a top LR mechanic I didn't think I had to.....
AlanH.

Zhou and Vincent analysed the different lubricant on fretting damage. You can look up his paper. But basically it'd just pilot work and he point out for gross slip regimen, solid lubricant such as powder is better, for partial slip regiment , grease or oil is fine. But mos2 may cause less wear or it may not.

Reference:

Zhou, Z.R. and Vincent, L., "Lubrication in fretting - a review," Wear,
1999,225-229, p. 962-967

Originally Posted by martnH

In fact, if the shafts are well aligned, you can argue there is no need for lubricants.

But in the real world there is always some movement and flex.

Diff housings bend and flex, different materials have different expansion coefficients.
No assembly is totally rigid.

Almost every greased bearing 110/130 has flogged out axle and drive flange splines due to fretting corrosion until the things are properly lubricated.

Diff housings bend just in acceleration and braking.
Have a look under a race car with a live axle to see how severely they are trussed to prevent toe out on acceleration.
While our cars don't have the power or torque of a NASCAR or the old live axle V8 Supercars, 4WD puts things under similar stress climbing rock steps with crazy torque multiplication thanks to the t/case.

Lubricant fixes the problem, its a practical solution.

Originally Posted by rick130

But in the real world there is always some movement and flex.

Diff housings bend and flex, different materials have different expansion coefficients.
No assembly is totally rigid.

Almost every greased bearing 110/130 has flogged out axle and drive flange splines due to fretting corrosion until the things are properly lubricated.

Diff housings bend just in acceleration and braking.
Have a look under a race car with a live axle to see how severely they are trussed to prevent toe out on acceleration.
While our cars don't have the power or torque of a NASCAR or the old live axle V8 Supercars, 4WD puts things under similar stress climbing rock steps with crazy torque multiplication thanks to the t/case.

Lubricant fixes the problem, its a practical solution.

Hi Rick,
Thanks. Yes indeed lubricant is good.

But I am suggesting there maybe something else needs attention here. You can only get maybe $2 grease in there after all..... Maybe $10 if you use the best grease....

I had a look at defender2. Some of those removed adapter shafts, albeit not grease and corroded, still have a well defined splines. So maybe Not all marriage between mt82 and Lt230 is equal...

I used the Ashcroft kit...But some on the forum experience adapter shaft failure with Ashcroft kit as well...

So with regards to the misalignment. What if the lt230 is crap....How would you check that?

defender drive shaft and flanges, I will probably say tolerance is a bit of problem there. I would image one is not supposed to easily fit the flange into a drive shaft by hand without any heating?....... not that case with a land Rover...

I wish there is a way to weld the adapter shaft on.

And by using a grease that has EP properties other than the lubricating solids you are covering you're arse with hydrodynamic as well as boundary layer lubrication.

EP gear oil works by the EP additives (most commonly a Sulphur/phosphorous additive) reacting with the iron asperites under boundary layer conditions (heat and pressure) to form a sacrificial oxide layer.

Originally Posted by martnH

Hi Rick,
Thanks. Yes indeed lubricant is good.

But I am suggesting there maybe something else needs attention here. You can only get maybe $2 grease in there after all..... Maybe $10 if you use the best grease....

I had a look at defender2. Some of those removed adapter shafts, albeit not grease and corroded, still have a well defined splines. So maybe Not all marriage between mt82 and Lt230 is equal...

I used the Ashcroft kit...But some on the forum experience adapter shaft failure with Ashcroft kit as well...

So with regards to the misalignment. What if the lt230 is crap....How would you check that?

With regards to the defender drive shaft and flanges, I will probably say tolerance is a bit of problem there. I would image one is not supposed to easily fit the flange into a drive shaft by hand without any heating?....... not that case with a land Rover...

I wish there is a way to weld the adapter shaft on.

Misalignment can always be an issue on a mass produced car.
On the machinery I work on lasers are used to get alignment correct and with the race cars I worked on several lifetimes ago we used dial indicators, protractors and lots of checking and measuring so that the bell housing, engine and gearbox aligned properly to prevent clutch and 'box related issues, but the fact remains that from practical experience running splined shafts dry leads to fretting corrosion.
Land Rover's own fix on the old LT230/R380 problem was holes in the gear to allow gear oil into the splines.

So looking at it,the shaft doesn't appear misaligned as the splines are all worn evenly without any sign of angled wear,if that makes sense.The clip is very worn,it is worn flat on it's outer edge,the joint was dry,all the grease was smeared around the extension housing.I'm going to go to plan B,grease the new one with desert grease and silicon bead the joint,then shrink fit a silicon hose over the whole coupling to secure it in place.I think the TDCi is a great vehicle,the clutch and adapter just need a rethink,the Tdi on the other hand,haven't driven it for 6 weeks,a couple of pumps on the lift pump and the half flat battery still got her to start,best vehicle I have ever owned. Pat

I find an interesting paper with photos.(attached below)

A) 700Nm torque, nil misalignment angle, lubrication active (Figure 4A),
700Nm torque, 5’ misalignment angle, lubrication active (Figure 4;
C) 700Nm torque, 10’ misalignment angle, lubrication active (Figure 4C);
D) 700Nm torque, 10’ misalignment angle, lubrication not active (Figure 4D).

Fig.A shows the case of zero misalignment.

C and D, tells you how much the lubricant will prevent wear in case of misalignment. The one without lubricant has indeed a much deeper wear.

B&C tells you how much damage. 5' extra misalignment will cause.

Lubrication is of course very important. Howecer one study point out simply applying grease will have limited effect because it will lose its lubricity once the gap is filled up with debris. (Debris due to.abrasion

It is difficult to check the degree of misalignment if any by looking at the wear pattern. Because the misalignment will magnify the oscillating force, causing more abrasion.

P.s you may already know this but those "rust" on the splines, are actually not rust due to the oxidation of Steel.
It's the oscillating force gradually abrades the splines, producing debris and pitting the splines contact surface. You can make it airtight. But still the abrasion will go on.

Cheers
Martin