Lockers...

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

We had a Detroit locker in the rear of our D1 300Tdi and it was a good thing.
Standard axles and flanges never broke, even in The Simpson.
The main danger is if a wheel is spinning and suddenly grips, transferring the load to the axle, so sympathetic driving helps.

I never bothered doing anything to the front, as it was unnecessary, but I agree a Truetrac is a great choice. In fact, you could also put a Truetrac in the rear.
So I would do the rear first and then decide if more is needed.

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Originally Posted by Landy Red

That's great feedback DiscoMick... and the bit about spinning wheels is my experience too.. correct me if I'm wrong, but surly it's not going to be spinning very fast if the other rear wheel has some traction.. unlike an open set up. This is why I was thinking less likely to break standard axles when a Detroit is fitted - because that scenario of a spinning wheel that suddenly gets traction is also less likely.

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One piece axles vs splined axle plus drive flange have very different wear characteristics, plus sand doesn't potentially shock load such as all the torque going through one wheel when the other is lifted in rocks, etc.

worth remembering that torque load isn't governed by whether you are locked or not. in theory you can have the same torque load at a wheel in an unlocked vehicle as you would with a twin locked vehicle. Think of a side slope up hill. the rear wheel on the downhill side is carrying the majority of the vehicle weight and thus torque load at that wheel is greatest of the 4 wheels. Torque is a twisting force thus is highest at the place of greatest resistance. Where lockers come into their own is the ability to slow down wheel speed to match the vehicle speed reducing shock load. There will still be shock load as the engine power torques up against the resistance provided by the wheel coming back to ground but it is modest compared to a fast spinning wheel coming to a sudden stop.

As for the detroit locker, i've been told that a snapped axle can damage the carrier. If that is true, using stock axles as a fuse might cost you more money than you planned.

You can build a Dana 60, 30 spline ARB rear end for about $300 more than a 24 spline ARB with HD axles rear end. A maxi drive, with labour is the same up front cost as a Dana 60 30 spline set up. I paid less for my Dana 60 35 spline ARB locker than ARB RRP for the Sals locker. Detroit Dana 60 can be had for a little over $1,000, 2 cases of beer cheaper than i paid for the ARB. All you need to do is machine the spindle bore to suit the larger axle and source axles and flanges. MR Automotive and (if you ask nice) Jacmac will make them for you or source fixed flange versions from US. the R&P carry over save for imperial bolts v's metric for the crown, rest is LR spec. i wish i had known when i built my maxi, the 3 replaced snapped axles would have covered the extra cost of a Dana 60 conversion. Now doing it with a 35 spline set up but that is a step up in price and hassle.

$800 for a set of HD axles is a modest cost and why not do it. And for what it is worth, my preference is selectable locker. rear locker on slippery side slopes can make your ring pucker. much prefer control of a selectable locker.

Actually that is wrong. With an open diff the torque is the same on both wheels always. That is the entire concept.

With a locked axle all of the torque can go to one wheel.

A Detroit locker is locked all the time, except when it unlocks for a sharp turn, such as a roundabout.
A Truetrac is normally unlocked, except when it locks because a wheel spins, rather like traction control. That's why Truetracs can be used in the front without affecting steering.
So, is it right to assume a Truetrac would put less load on an axle and be less likely to snap it, compared with a Detroit locker?

That is also not how a truetrac works. It never locks. It biases torque. No wheel slip needs to happen. All of the torque bias happens before the low traction wheel moves faster than the high traction wheel.

Yes, you're right, my explanation was a bit simplistic. It can reduce or stop wheelspin.

Detroit Truetrac | differential | limited slip | Eaton

I have. 95MY 110 wagon with the 300Tdi. I went for the selectable option and have air lockers. My rear axle shafts had a fair bit of wear so the decision was made for me with respect to axle replacements and the Maxi was good value for axles and flanges. I would go the HD axles and flanges.

Thanks for all the great feedback people! That video provided good explanations too. I look forward to seeing how the Detroit goes, and I'll upgrade the half shafts down the track when the current ones start showing signs of ware (and when funds allow) Seems that from feedback here, it's probably worth while, and piece of mind to have HD shafts in the back. But if I keep waiting around to have enough coin to pay for it all once, I'll never get there! Selectable lockers would probably be great too but just not the bang for a buck I require on current budget. I've got one of the ARB diff covers already, so back end should be quite strong when finished.

Sorry if this is a dumb question... but with a Dana 60 conversion - are u still using your original Sal's diff housing?

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Originally Posted by MLD

worth remembering that torque load isn't governed by whether you are locked or not. in theory you can have the same torque load at a wheel in an unlocked vehicle as you would with a twin locked vehicle. Think of a side slope up hill. the rear wheel on the downhill side is carrying the majority of the vehicle weight and thus torque load at that wheel is greatest of the 4 wheels. Torque is a twisting force thus is highest at the place of greatest resistance. Where lockers come into their own is the ability to slow down wheel speed to match the vehicle speed reducing shock load. There will still be shock load as the engine power torques up against the resistance provided by the wheel coming back to ground but it is modest compared to a fast spinning wheel coming to a sudden stop.

As for the detroit locker, i've been told that a snapped axle can damage the carrier. If that is true, using stock axles as a fuse might cost you more money than you planned.

You can build a Dana 60, 30 spline ARB rear end for about $300 more than a 24 spline ARB with HD axles rear end. A maxi drive, with labour is the same up front cost as a Dana 60 30 spline set up. I paid less for my Dana 60 35 spline ARB locker than ARB RRP for the Sals locker. Detroit Dana 60 can be had for a little over $1,000, 2 cases of beer cheaper than i paid for the ARB. All you need to do is machine the spindle bore to suit the larger axle and source axles and flanges. MR Automotive and (if you ask nice) Jacmac will make them for you or source fixed flange versions from US. the R&P carry over save for imperial bolts v's metric for the crown, rest is LR spec. i wish i had known when i built my maxi, the 3 replaced snapped axles would have covered the extra cost of a Dana 60 conversion. Now doing it with a 35 spline set up but that is a step up in price and hassle.

$800 for a set of HD axles is a modest cost and why not do it. And for what it is worth, my preference is selectable locker. rear locker on slippery side slopes can make your ring pucker. much prefer control of a selectable locker.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robmacca

Sorry if this is a dumb question... but with a Dana 60 conversion - are u still using your original Sal's diff housing?

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Yes, same housing, same C&P, same wheel hub & brakes, all LR spec bearings. Major difference is Dana 60 centre, custom axles & drive flange to suit, bore spindle axle to suit 30 spline. If you use dana 60 C&P you have to (i) use Dana spec bearings to suit the pinion; (ii) change your pinion flange to suit the dana pinion spline count (29 i think); and (ii) change the drive shaft coupling to suit if you go a flange or strap style UJ (same as Jeep). If you are not changing your crown ratio there is no need to worry about this last part. If you are running more HP / NM there is merit in changing to the 1350 UJ so the drive shaft upgrade is money well spent.