Thread: Who else is going over to the dark side?

Originally Posted by bln

I went to the Dark Side once for two years. I became a TOYBoy and purchased a new PRADO. During this time I would look longingly at Land-Rovers. I felt soulless, regretful, unfullfilled and filled with remorse for going to the Dark Side. My 4WDing lacked excitement and became ho-hum. The PRADO didn't provide me with the same enjoyment that I got from driving my previous Disco II. It turned out to be less reliable as well with a terrible motor that "pinged" when cold, oil leaked, handbrake mechanism falling to bits on the Oodnadatta track and the inner body skin cracked on the Mitchells Falls track. The car rattled like a bucket of bolts and needed a lift kit to have an acceptable ground clearance for the Simpson. Then the shocker bushes continually chewed out (3 sets).
I don't know much about the land-cruisers (never driven one) but I think that they look ugly. I like the look of all Land Rovers. I don't know much about the 70 series other than you have to spend a fortune on them to get them to be OK. Its the only 4WD that I know of that has a different wheel base between the front and back axles other than a gogglemobil.

I do know that I would miss not having a Land Rover - the heart and soul of 4WDing.

Ha ha, Gogglemobil , I'm old enough to remember that ad! Not the dart!

Originally Posted by JoshV12345

I love my defender - it’s interesting. Like all the best cars made they are not the most reliable but they are awesome to drive and look at. Alternatives just seem boring in comparison.

After driving land cruisers, patrols, hilux, defenders just have that ‘thing’ that makes you feel something.

However, it does have that worry - will it break down this trip. Always in the back of your mind. Will that rover diff be up to it this time? Will my fuel pump die? Will my head gasket blow? You don’t ask these questions in many other cars. That will be the reason I will sell. While any car can have failures, it is definitely less likely in a Toyota. I know people say it’s all down to maintenance, but I think it speaks for itself, go outback and most of the cars are Toyota’s. Land Rover really missed an opportunity to make the new defender a more reliable old defender similar to a 70 series but more interesting.

Owned my TD5 1999 Defender since new and only suffered one breakdown due to a dealership mechanic putting a map pocket tech screw into the pos.battery lead. Cannot blame the brand for that break down in the middle of the Vic desert. Done all my own servicing since and she is still going strong. Unfortunately my 2008 work car ( Diesel Toyota Prado ) has become too uneconomical to repair with a failed Auto box and collapsed front suspension wishbones.

Originally Posted by JoshV12345

I love my defender - it’s interesting. Like all the best cars made they are not the most reliable but they are awesome to drive and look at. Alternatives just seem boring in comparison.

After driving land cruisers, patrols, hilux, defenders just have that ‘thing’ that makes you feel something.

However, it does have that worry - will it break down this trip. Always in the back of your mind. Will that rover diff be up to it this time? Will my fuel pump die? Will my head gasket blow? You don’t ask these questions in many other cars. That will be the reason I will sell. While any car can have failures, it is definitely less likely in a Toyota. I know people say it’s all down to maintenance, but I think it speaks for itself, go outback and most of the cars are Toyota’s. Land Rover really missed an opportunity to make the new defender a more reliable old defender similar to a 70 series but more interesting.

What’s this worry you speak of?

I’ve ran 35s on Rover diffs for 18 years without a problem and it was only brought to an end by a heavy handed Son driving poorly.

Will the fuel pump fail? Well on my Falcon it did, on my GT it did, on my work Hilux it did.

On several vehicles the oil pump failed, I’ve had oil senders blow out losing oil, electrical gremlins in a Toyota that took 2 years to diagnose and sort.

3 steering racks, 2 radiators, an Intercooler, welded up chassis more times than I have fingers, replaced an ecu, 2 transfer cases, multiple transmission repairs, 6 ABS/TC failures, dashes that leak dust and rattle the plastic apart. I don’t thrash my work vehicles.

A colleague has replaced 2 diffs, 3 CV joints, a door!, seat belts, indicators that just fall out and at 18 months it needed a new windscreen - only to find beneath the trim was full of rust….

Reasons Land Rovers have issues:
- **** mechanics
- cheap pattern parts
- cheap owners
- lack of mechanical sympathy
- used for purpose; subjected to more stress
- influenced by history (people still talk of Lucas when a D4 needs a light bulb)

What is true? Even those polls don’t cut it - the items that make up the issues include things like light bulbs and a person with a $130k+ RRS etc will certainly complain.

Hi Tombie, Certainly agree with you that there is a lot of cheap parts out there. Lots are fine, but some are absolute crap. Unfortunately Land rover put out to tender for "Genuine" parts and end up putting stickers of genuine on crap parts. So you end up paying 3 or 4 times more for the same stuff you can buy on ebay . They just don't give a damn , especially for the older vehicles. Worst is they consider anything old being over 5 years old.

Ive had my Defender off the road now for 5 months and I am keen on pulling it down and fixing her again soon. Like you I do all my own maintenance. But time poor at the moment.

BTW i am probably in your category of cheap owners!

Tombie, you speak of GT ? What GT is this....

Originally Posted by Tombie

What’s this worry you speak of?

I’ve ran 35s on Rover diffs for 18 years without a problem and it was only brought to an end by a heavy handed Son driving poorly.

Reasons Land Rovers have issues:
- **** mechanics
- cheap pattern parts
- cheap owners
- lack of mechanical sympathy
- used for purpose; subjected to more stress
- influenced by history (people still talk of Lucas when a D4 needs a light bulb)

What is true? Even those polls don’t cut it - the items that make up the issues include things like light bulbs and a person with a $130k+ RRS etc will certainly complain.

I worry about rover diffs because they're not fit for purpose - it was something designed for a lighter vehicle with less power and they never updated it for the newer cars. I know other cars have their faults/failures but you don't really hear about patrols/cruisers etc blowing a front diff unless they're abused. Which leads into lack of mechanical sympathy - if they just designed the diff to be the correct strength for the application, it wouldn't be an issue.

Spare parts seem hit and miss to get good ones, even if marked as 'genuine'. I don't know about other people on here but I actually don't mind working on my car and doing jobs myself but it would be nice if you did something, it works then it actually lasted (after you've paid through the nose for 'genuine' parts). I think I've forgotten what it's like to own a 'normal' car that just requires a service once or twice a year and that's that - it's become the new normal to always have a job coming up on it.

All that being said, I'm not complaining otherwise I'd just sell it, and I love it too much to sell.

Originally Posted by Tombie

What’s this worry you speak of?


Reasons Land Rovers have issues:
- **** mechanics
- cheap pattern parts
- cheap owners
- lack of mechanical sympathy
- used for purpose; subjected to more stress
- influenced by history (people still talk of Lucas when a D4 needs a light bulb)

I would suggest these are the reasons and brand has issues, particularly the lack of mechanical sympathy.

A fair bit of drinking the Land Rover kool-aid on this thread. Nearly as much as over on LCOOL

I've been able to drive a couple of the Chinese brands for work, they are surprisingly good for the money. If I were to do say the Canning again, I take one of those over a new Defender. Both have about the same chance of doing the distance and both would cost the same to recover on the back of a truck if something went wrong. The china ute though is a 1/3rd the cost to purchase and I wouldn't care so much about the scratches.

Originally Posted by JoshV12345

I worry about rover diffs because they're not fit for purpose - it was something designed for a lighter vehicle with less power and they never updated it for the newer cars. I know other cars have their faults/failures but you don't really hear about patrols/cruisers etc blowing a front diff unless they're abused. Which leads into lack of mechanical sympathy - if they just designed the diff to be the correct strength for the application, it wouldn't be an issue.

Spare parts seem hit and miss to get good ones, even if marked as 'genuine'. I don't know about other people on here but I actually don't mind working on my car and doing jobs myself but it would be nice if you did something, it works then it actually lasted (after you've paid through the nose for 'genuine' parts). I think I've forgotten what it's like to own a 'normal' car that just requires a service once or twice a year and that's that - it's become the new normal to always have a job coming up on it.

All that being said, I'm not complaining otherwise I'd just sell it, and I love it too much to sell.

We have numerous land Rovers, only one has had any diff work-and that was a half shaft, most of them are between 3 and 500 thousand km.

As far as mountain climbing, creek crossing, and cross axle stuff goes, they are indeed fit for purpose (diffs).

The problem now is most owners have tried to turn them into comp cars, and use them as such, Nissan diffs are indeed stronger, the chassis obviously not! -GU.

They overheat on demand, and are agricultural at best.

Toyota's are great, around here they like bums, everyone has one.

Like most Japanese stuff the build quality is excellent, but they still break.

Cracked chassis, cracked diff housings, injectors obviously.

Part of the problem as Tombie said, is that a lot of LR owners are "cheap" , at least compared to some other brands.

Neighbour just spent $8k on one, didn't even blink, because it's bulletproof and nothing ever breaks.....??

That was mainly drive-line stuff.

If the motor let go, he'd just replace it.

Another neighbour, 100 series 4.2, best 4wd ever built, "never had an issue" he said.

Saw it in town blowing black smoke everywhere, caught up with them to mention, thanked me... Both went our separate ways.

Next time I saw him asked about it, it was the injector pump, his mate standing next to him went off, he didn't know they had replaced it.... Again, 2 injector pumps, a set of injectors, issues with the steering which cost thousands, but it's bulletproof??

Then they bought a 200 series.

If I had a bulletproof vest that let say 40% of the bullet's through, I'd be cheesed off.

But then...I own a land Rover.