Puma 2.2 fine rattle/hissing noise on acceleration.

**DrDeath** · 27th August 2023, 08:54 PM

Hello kind souls. I’d really appreciate any thoughts about my latest love.

2012, 130k, started making this light to moderately loud sound like a fine chain or ? bearing noise or ? air a week ago. Volume proportional to acceleration. Nil noise on even speed or coasting. Unhappily like a chaffcutter when tested under heavy load, doggy style (that’s head out the winda, don’t be ribald). Coming from front half but can’t tell top or bottom. And just to spite the gods, it can start or get louder when cornering (dep on acceleration). Tiny similar noise under incr or high revs, hot, at standstill, but can’t tell location. Could be nil relation.

History:
3k/9wks ago Indie rebuilt gearbox, clutch, output shaft. Xfr not rebuilt, bit leaky, my oversight. Still hard into 1/R on cold, and up into 3rd. Recent whl bearings, seals, HD axles, flanges, CVs, HD swivel kits, ball joints, unis. 1k/2wks ago new oil pump, timing chain kit, by national 4WD mob. Gears get better with every reno.

1 wk ago replaced gear with Pen 75W-85 full synthetic, yellow metal safe, to see if any difference. Noise started that or next day or so. Put 80W-90 semisynthetic back in. Gears and running a little smoother than 75/85. Noise unhappily remains.

Current attempts to diagnose/eliminate/fix: IC, hoses and manifold all OK to visual check and gentle prying (that’s also medical lingo). Nil air, fluid leaks noted. Replaced centre idler bearing (leaked, rough). Alt, AC, steer, pump shafts test ok by hand. Fan pulley bearing slight wobble and unevenness, but not dry or rough to hand test. Thermo fan removed makes no diff. To replace fan bearing and top and bottom grooved pulleys ASAP.

Questions then for your kind perusal, if you’ve made it this far:
Could the fan pulley bearing explain this noise under load, with/out fan ?
Could an IC/manifold leak explain it ?
Are there known potential problems with oil pump or timing chain work ?
Could gearbox/clutch problems explain it ?
Could my foray into exotic lube have John Thomased the MT82 ?
And finally, if you lads and lasses are bravely still here, should I take her off the road until she gets an urgent top end review ?

**DazzaTD5** · 28th August 2023, 10:09 AM

hissing under load, gets louder:
*intercooler hoses, any one of three.
*the last one is an elbow on the bottom of the intake assembly, its common split is the outer bend. look for oil residue on top of the engine mount for that side, normally by then the engine light has come on. but if a recent sound then there maybe no light or residue, it can split on the inner side of the elbow.

*split intercooler, look down the holes of the radiator support panel and look for a split on either end where the alum cooler attaches to the plastic ends.
*split intake manifold, same oily residue is generally seen, the split is most common near the intake tube area.

*any one of the idlers for the serpentine belt (fan belt) can start to fail. Isolate this by removing the belt and starting, if sound is gone check each pulley and feel for a crunchy rough turning. the centre bearing that supports the viscous fan can be the culprit.
*check the alternator for roughness as well, the clutch on the pulley can go bad.

------
rattle grating sound coming from centre floor:
*gearbox, while the strongest gearbox used in a Defender they still can go bad, most noticeable in the top 2 gears when you drive down the freeway.
*clutch failing, most noticeable, engine running, in neutral foot off the clutch the rattle can get quite bad, foot on the clutch and the sound drops off.
*transfer case whine, generally the sound can be heard further back from the gearbox.
*rear diff while, sit someone (or yourself) while someone is driving and both the transfer case and rear diff noise if there can be reasonably easy to pick up.

These are all items that can fail on the Defender TDCi (2007 - 2016)

*Find a trusted independent repairer, preferably one that knows this Defender model.

**DrDeath** · 28th August 2023, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

hissing under load, gets louder:
*intercooler hoses, any one of three … normally by then the engine light has come on. but if a recent sound then there maybe no light or residue, it can split on the inner side of the elbow.
*split intercooler …
*split intake manifold ...
*any one of the idlers … the centre bearing that supports the viscous fan can be the culprit.
*check the alternator for roughness as well, the clutch on the pulley can go bad.
*gearbox … most noticeable in the top 2 gears when you drive down the freeway.
*clutch failing, most noticeable, engine running, in neutral foot off the clutch the rattle can get quite bad, foot on the clutch and the sound drops off.
*transfer case whine
*rear diff whine
*Find a trusted independent repairer

Thanks very much for that info Daz, that’s really helpful.
I think I can rule out gearbox and diffs then.
I couldn’t make the noise while stressing intake system, but maybe I’m too gentle.
Seems like intake, fan pulley bearing or some other top end unpleasantness then.

Stroke of luck, the guys who did the pump and chain were able to see her this arvo, instead of usual 1-2wks. May have to pay $700 for the fan/grooved pulley assembly, instead of $50 for new bearing, if that’s the problem. But that’s better than shxtting itself at inconvenient place and time.

In the past, you’ve mentioned replacing MT82 main shaft as a rule when rebuilding gearbox. Mine wasn’t replaced - could that possibly explain hard R/1 when cold, and slight clash up into 3rd ?

Anyway, thanks again for your help Daz. I’ll post the final outcome when it happens. Cheers.

**Tikka7mm08** · 1st September 2023, 03:36 AM

The output shaft is probably not linked to the noise but is a great upgrade (LOF for me) that removes harshness when going through the gears and dropping the clutch.

I would have thought a split IC hose might throw fault, go into limp mode, but could make that noise and have had that myself too. Well worth checking.

**DazzaTD5** · 1st September 2023, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by DrDeath

Thanks very much for that info Daz, that’s really helpful.
I think I can rule out gearbox and diffs then.
I couldn’t make the noise while stressing intake system, but maybe I’m too gentle.
Seems like intake, fan pulley bearing or some other top end unpleasantness then.

Stroke of luck, the guys who did the pump and chain were able to see her this arvo, instead of usual 1-2wks. May have to pay $700 for the fan/grooved pulley assembly, instead of $50 for new bearing, if that’s the problem. But that’s better than shxtting itself at inconvenient place and time.

In the past, you’ve mentioned replacing MT82 main shaft as a rule when rebuilding gearbox. Mine wasn’t replaced - could that possibly explain hard R/1 when cold, and slight clash up into 3rd ?

Anyway, thanks again for your help Daz. I’ll post the final outcome when it happens. Cheers.

any decent gearbox rebuilder that knows the MT82 boxes will know to look at or replace the mainshaft, and all the other bits that are known to the MT82 box.

the MT82 box are a known chunky shift (**** for a car i guess but great for a Defender) , if its crunchy between gears (when cold and only slightly) it may be the wrong fluid, try Penrite Progear 75w90, you could at a pinch try the same product in 70w75, but it should not need it.
some rebuilders try to re-invent the wheel by putting different detents/springs to give it a smoother shift, to which I say.... why? its a ****ing Defender its ment to have a chunky shift.

**DazzaTD5** · 1st September 2023, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Tikka7mm08

I would have thought a split IC hose might throw fault, go into limp mode, but could make that noise and have had that myself too. Well worth checking.

yes often, but depending on the split and how hard you drive it, it may not light up for quite a bit

**DrDeath** · 12th September 2023, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Tikka7mm08

The output shaft is probably not linked to the noise but is a great upgrade (LOF for me) that removes harshness when going through the gears and dropping the clutch.

I would have thought a split IC hose might throw fault, go into limp mode, but could make that noise and have had that myself too. Well worth checking.

Many thanks, sorry for my late response. I was thinking that too about the limp mode. FYI, Indie used Ashcroft shaft and Extreme Outback clutch, so I’m fairly happy with that.

Noise was found and fixed, will post in reply to Daz

Cheers again for your thoughts.

**DrDeath** · 12th September 2023, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

yes often, but depending on the split and how hard you drive it, it may not light up for quite a bit

Sorry for delayed response. You were spot on, thank Dog. Shop used smoke machine and eventually found noise to be bottom of rubber turbo outlet elbow. I feel a little better that they also had trouble tracking it down. I’m very surprised at the harsh metallic noise it made. Caused central hole and small radiating cracks right on rubber to metal pipe joint, no wearing away of rubber.

So, looks like original hose, although it had ‘aftermarket’ looking hose clamps. Elbow was pressing down hard on steering shaft, rubbed ‘hex’ shaft slightly smooth. Metal section of turbo to IC pipe was rubbing hard on steering box adjuster, wore about 3mm off screw and abt 2mm off side of locknut.

Luckily had spent months collecting new custom radiator, custom IC, silicone hoses, mounts, etc. So, two days carefully fitting new gear and voila !!! Runs smooth as a baby’s bxm.

New silicone turbo to IC hose cut to fit, now sits an inch or so away from steering shaft and box. Had to remove water pump to fit intake side reducing elbow. Needed minor mods to custom radiator to seat it and IC. Water pump had a loose bolt - looks like the 3 are different lengths.

Many thanks again to you blokes for your thoughts. Cheers gents.

Thread: Puma 2.2 fine rattle/hissing noise on acceleration.

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Puma 2.2 fine rattle/hissing noise on acceleration.

IC leak limp mode

Problem solved.

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