Thread: So the PUMA goes back to the garage again tomorrow

After just checking BOM site - it was -2.7 degrees in Ipswich this morning when I fired up Grover. I warmed it up for 3 or so minutes, drove off slowly and without load until engine temp came up - no rattles or unusual noises.

I can't understand why some Pumas do this and some don't - especially if the fix is software - that doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Scallops

After just checking BOM site - it was -2.7 degrees in Ipswich this morning when I fired up Grover. I warmed it up for 3 or so minutes, drove off slowly and without load until engine temp came up - no rattles or unusual noises.

I can't understand why some Pumas do this and some don't - especially if the fix is software - that doesn't make sense.

I wonder whether its happening during your long warm up period? Due to being at idle you don't notice it?

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

I wonder whether its happening during your long warm up period? Due to being at idle you don't notice it?

I know this has all been said before, but as it has come up I will reiterate - According to both Austral and MR Automotive - warming it up in cold weather for 3 or so minutes (as I'm doing) is not a long warm up at all - it's good policy. To quote Jason at MR - "It's the best thing you can do for your engine". I have seen other gurus here say it's not good policy - so why do actual LR mechanics say it is?

I have made my own decision to keep doing this warm up in the face of this conflicting advise - hey, I'm the one who is not having the issue!

Anyhow - Sometimes I get a chatter that lasts about a second or so just after firing (I'm also told this is normal for a diesel engine) - but, strangely, not this morning.

As a post script (see solmanic's reply below) - having discussed this issue further with solmanic, I am now aware that even if affected vehicles go through "my" warm up procedure it woudn't prevent the issue from happening.

Boy-o-boy - what is going on with these Puma vehicles? It's just abysmal.

Just been around the block, and yes, a little rattle. Nowhere near as bad as yesterday, but still definitely there.

I think the warm-up discussion has been confused somewhat from the original argument that it's just not good practice to let a modern diesel idle for extended periods (like truckies do when they have to keep their heaters/A/C going).

Anyway... now to fire off this morning's report to the dealer.

Just thought I should share this response to a PM from Scallops as it has further info on my rattle history. I've added some clarifications to my original PM in blue...

In the past, when I've tried warming the vehicle up the rattle still occurs during that time. This has happened maybe twice only and not because I was specifically warming the vehicle up, I just had the vehicle idle a bit longer than usual before driving off. It's actually more unnerving when it occurs at idle as it goes on for longer until you rev the engine. This morning I noticed it did the rattle at about the same time as the temperature needle started to move up from cold (maybe consistent, but it's the first time I have noticed). My (and I'm sure other people's) issue is that warmed-up or not, this has been happening from new in a modern diesel that was supposedly cold weather tested and not harshly treated. I usually only idle along gently after starting figuring this is as good as a static warm up an yet it still rattles?!? Something is definitely not right and Land Rover need to fix it.

Sent my morning bulletin off to the dealer and rang to confirm they got it. My service guy is away until Monday so we'll see what he thinks the next move is.

Lou,

My post was not meant to belittle or make light of the seriousness of the issue for some here. My use of the word "glitch" when referring to my incident was merely to say that for me the problem so far fortunately is minor and rare. The glitch is similar to others and therefore probably the same cause just not as frequent or as severe.

Our collective frustration stems from the lack of engineering facts here...not as a result of lack of knowledge of the people here but rather Land Rovers rigour or lack of it.

Having said that there seems to be some common and consistant symptoms and as Solmanic says we should be gathering this information and escalating it above the dealers.

Thanks for the clarificatin Mahn......

Like i have said before.....its not good that people are having these problems but for me personally it is, as we no longer have to fight this battle on our own.

It was a very long year trying to prove the rattle even exsisted....but the fact that we no longer even need to worry whether or not it can be created says to me that the issue along with time is obviously getting worse.

Thats why I worry that people do not take a rattle like this in the car seriously.

I'm not saying every time you hear a rattle to panic but if you get a rattle in the same manor as others its not something I personaly feel that anyone should just go oh yeah I'm not worried.

I suppose only time will tell whether this will in tern start damanging components when not fixed, but all I can say is the frequency of it happening has more than increased since the inital problem raised its head 18months ago. To the point where it doesn't have to be cold so much to do it.

yes it happens less frequent when its warm but it has happened.....so the dealers and landrover and even owners to some degree ignoring the problem, I can assure you is not going to make it fix its self and go away.

For interest here in New Zealand -5 in the mornings, puma is outside and starts OK everyday
heard of guys on hunting trips -12 etc no problems etc so as such be related to cold? as they start on some vechiles ok and the Transit engine starts in the cold in the UK My friends had several and my relatives have in the real russian winter!!! which is very cold!!!
perhaps software, sensors, water in the diesel? has affected the rail like what is destroying the New v8 landcruiser engines over here and they all need new rails, injectors etc at cost of $30000!!!!
yet the puma is supposed to cope with bad diesel?
must be very annoying but if you can isolate the cause, Ithink it cannot be the cold as such