Thread: Stupid question

Oh well DB, for those that do not like the name Puma, they can get the Defender 2.4 Tdci which is the name of the new Defender in many countries OS
It is a bit confusing, OS they call Defender 2.4 Tdci to many models, and Puma to the 5 doors as long as it is not the SVX.

Originally Posted by dullbird

I think it is funny Dave as I feel you have totally missed the main point of my gripe in doing so you have gone on this massive tangent which only seems to support the fact that you hate Pumas and why they are crapper then anything else.....thats lovely, not it truly is.
NOW do you think you might be able to refrain from coming into threads about Pumas and being excessively negative....by all means no one is going to have a go at you for being negative if it is back up with being constructive or you have had first hand experience.

if I had first hand experience?


like say...

A 4 way shoot out (or how the sheds on wheels have evolved)

that thread?

or the assesment driving I got invited to do for them down at pucka?

or the cross country driving I did with them on base side by side alongside big red (not mentioned or posted about due to us not being allowed to take photos on base) and not mentioned because everywhere I got the puma I got big red and where the owner got stuck in the puma he got stuck in big red so there was no real decisive outcome other than I knew the track better than the puma driver.

or the test driving I did in them when I was debating replacing Big Red? (purchasing and re-engineering an alternative motor to replace the td5 is cheaper than the interest payments on a new deefer without the initial 50K+ purchase price)

no, I have no experience in them whatsoever, I'm just making stuff up to **** you off.

or am I?

this from JohnR himself

Originally Posted by JohnR

I done many 1st gear low speed crawls and it has never "lurched" on me?? Maybe it's a different system to the Bushmaster?? It is after all a totally different vehicle and we are talking Puma's aren't we??

1st gear on a puma is lower than most, the only time it hasn't gone slow enough for me I've had to get on the clutch and come down on the brakes

which is a perfect example of why some of the electronic features that you used to have a manual control over and is pointed out again further on down given thread by me thusly

Originally Posted by Me

on a downhill descent that isnt a single level grade (ie a rocky downgrade) there is a magic point where it cuts between idle up and over run if you happen to jag it so that its trying to do one then the other due to changing vehicle speed over obstacles on the way down (like that double drop at the top of the line you took into gunshot but worse) and the track is consistantly rough in the right way all the way down you wind up bunny hopping it down.

Ive experienced it but then I was out to do it deliberately and had stacked the deck against the vehicle to make it happen to see if it would. you can also make it happen on the way up a hill if you're in the situation where the high idle isnt giving you enough but you need to slow right down (a torn up shale climb for example) but its nowhere near as noticable...

and immediately after by you...

Originally Posted by Dullbrid

Must be very magical haven't experienced it yet

so your saying you own one and you havent yet found the limitations of it? JohnR has one and hes found a situation that requires what is basically a dangerous driving technique to circumvent.

this is also covered later in that same thread right after the video post showing that what I was talking about actually happens


one iota pipes in with

Originally Posted by one_iota

Dave,

I can imagine that that could happen particularly when there are mixed conditions: ledges and loose gound.

In the Disco I could use the accelerator and brake together (right foot and left foot) to ease down steps and slatey stuff. I couldn't do that in the Defender because it would have other ideas.

(But the 3dr 95 300Tdi Discovery was the best Land Rover ever made)

he owns one and still recons that a disco is better than it (ok cheap snide shot there) but more to the point identifies that with the new tech of the puma you can no longer drive through the brakes. (Which is only partly true, you can drive through the brakes but it doesnt have the same end effect but thats not something I'd know about not actually owning a puma dispite having actually tried it a couple of times on differing surfaces)

posted by Tim_NZ after my comment about the thread starter wanting to disable the hi-idle not the antistall was this

Originally Posted by Tim_NZ

I'd say so. It can be a bit un-nerving, and some cars seem to be more aggressive with the idle jack than others. My 110 isn't too bad and I have grown used to it.

Tim

which would lead me to believe that its not a constant factor (well how about that Land Rover (technically Ford) building something else with variable quality control)

and finally

Originally Posted by camel landy

It is effectively in every single modern day vehicle with electronic fuel injection.

One of the inputs on an ECU is the engine idle speed. If the ECU decides that the engine is running too slow, it will increase it... Which is exactly what anti-stall is. The only real difference is that the LR guys have tweaked the parameters which it works within and turned it into a 'feature'.

Even the TD5 has 'anti-stall'...

If you don't like it, either learn how to drive it properly or get rid of it!

which pretty much ends that particular thread.

I dont own a bushmaster (any varient), unimog (1700 or 1750 any varient), Mack truck (fleet liner or R series in any varient), m113A1/M577/M548, Perentie (any varient) DRZ600 or any one of the other hundred or so things that I fix and operate on a daily basis so I must by your logic have absolutely no knowledge of those either.

Heres the real kicker.

Lets just say that the quality control of the pumas high idle is somewhat variable and some do nasty things and some don't. lets also say that person X has bought one and jumps on the forum and asks "is there anything I should know about this vehicle before I go and tackle the bewareofthedroptocertaindesrtuction track on mount I'mgunnadiehere?

you say no, go for it. When he hits something and the vehicle doesnt react as he expected it do and causes him to drive round on the brakes and clutch (because he was a newbie four wheeler, doesnt know any better and was expecting the vehicle to make him a four wheel driving god like the ads) then something else happens he panics a little looses traction (because his speed is now high and when he dumps the clutch he pulls off a compression lockup), slides off the track plummetnig to his crinkly squishy seperatist death (diesel vehicles dont explode like in the movies)

I say yes and give a list of things that you'd offhand as me being negative and not owning one just hating on the vehicle. when the vehicel does what it wasn't supposed to do instead of trying to adjust what he was doing drives through it because he knows that its normal. he doesnt drive on the brakes or the clutch and makes it to the bottom because he doesnt have the clutch in when the vehicle overspeeds a little and he never properly breaks traction.

oh, and just by the by....

check this thread....

Defender Anti-Stall

oh and

Defender Anti-Stall

that one, in particular
this post
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/847023-post6.html
this
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/848784-post8.html (which if its to be believed indicates that antistall doesnt always work but that lines up with something I've managed to do in a puma deefer and since I don't own one myself to experience it cant possabley be true)

and this post
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/743239-post27.html by me which reads decidedly similar to the one that camel_landy put up that I've quoted earlier.

Yep, I must be jaded against them...

oh wait...

This is the civilised defender. Its the one you buy when you have to buy a utiltarian landrover that the wife needs to drive. the box is a good match to the engine and has a nice short easy gate, the clutch has a sort of over center assist so that once youve got it in and the pedals on the floor it takes less effort to hold it there.

Did you find who said that yet?

you have a nice day now.

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

if I had first hand experience?

like say...

A 4 way shoot out (or how the sheds on wheels have evolved)

that thread?

or the assesment driving I got invited to do for them down at pucka?

or the cross country driving I did with them on base side by side alongside big red (not mentioned or posted about due to us not being allowed to take photos on base) and not mentioned because everywhere I got the puma I got big red and where the owner got stuck in the puma he got stuck in big red so there was no real decisive outcome other than I knew the track better than the puma driver.

or the test driving I did in them when I was debating replacing Big Red? (purchasing and re-engineering an alternative motor to replace the td5 is cheaper than the interest payments on a new deefer without the initial 50K+ purchase price)

no, I have no experience in them whatsoever, I'm just making stuff up to **** you off.

Well you could be for all I know...I dont read all your threads dave they bore me to tears sometimes..so why dont you just say "well when I drove it, it does this...or when I did that it reacted like this..as we know you dont own one why dont you just say? its very easy....or you like to keep us guessing just so you can have petty little arguments like this

or am I?

this from JohnR himself



which is a perfect example of why some of the electronic features that you used to have a manual control over and is pointed out again further on down given thread by me thusly



and immediately after by you...

so your saying you own one and you havent yet found the limitations of it? JohnR has one and hes found a situation that requires what is basically a dangerous driving technique to circumvent.

no I haven't hence my comment on it being magical.....If I had then i wouldn't of said that I'm not a liar dave I say it like it is.

this is also covered later in that same thread right after the video post showing that what I was talking about actually happens

did it happen? I thought it was the driver showing the low first was not low enough for what he was doing not that it was bunny hoping down rocks!! that could just of been my interpretation of it though


one iota pipes in with



he owns one and still recons that a disco is better than it (ok cheap snide shot there) but more to the point identifies that with the new tech of the puma you can no longer drive through the brakes. (Which is only partly true, you can drive through the brakes but it doesnt have the same end effect but thats not something I'd know about not actually owning a puma dispite having actually tried it a couple of times on differing surfaces)

again you never say this to back up your claims.......its easy just say like i suggest above

posted by Tim_NZ after my comment about the thread starter wanting to disable the hi-idle not the antistall was this



which would lead me to believe that its not a constant factor (well how about that Land Rover (technically Ford) building something else with variable quality control)

and finally



which pretty much ends that particular thread.

I dont own a bushmaster (any varient), unimog (1700 or 1750 any varient), Mack truck (fleet liner or R series in any varient), m113A1/M577/M548, Perentie (any varient) DRZ600 or any one of the other hundred or so things that I fix and operate on a daily basis so I must by your logic have absolutely no knowledge of those either.

no but you dont work on and drive pumas daily do you..or is that something else your not saying? like I have said in other post I think your a knowledgeable bloke doesn't make you an expert on EVERYTHING

Heres the real kicker.

Lets just say that the quality control of the pumas high idle is somewhat variable and some do nasty things and some don't. lets also say that person X has bought one and jumps on the forum and asks "is there anything I should know about this vehicle before I go and tackle the bewareofthedroptocertaindesrtuction track on mount I'mgunnadiehere?

you say no, go for it. When he hits something and the vehicle doesnt react as he expected it do and causes him to drive round on the brakes and clutch (because he was a newbie four wheeler, doesnt know any better and was expecting the vehicle to make him a four wheel driving god like the ads) then something else happens he panics a little looses traction (because his speed is now high and when he dumps the clutch he pulls off a compression lockup), slides off the track plummetnig to his crinkly squishy seperatist death (diesel vehicles dont explode like in the movies)

I say yes and give a list of things that you'd offhand as me being negative and not owning one just hating on the vehicle. when the vehicel does what it wasn't supposed to do instead of trying to adjust what he was doing drives through it because he knows that its normal. he doesnt drive on the brakes or the clutch and makes it to the bottom because he doesnt have the clutch in when the vehicle overspeeds a little and he never properly breaks traction.

ok so now your getting a little silly here as we both know that people who own the car would all give there honest opinion mine would be that no I have never experienced it, the same as when people come on and ask if there are anythings to worry about as im concerned about reliabilty and should they buy one, I have said on a numebr of occcasions to look as there are a few issues...and others have come on and said mine has never broken down go for it.. (isn't that just the same)

as for the anti stall link you conveniently didn't put in the one where I have said we have managed to stall out in low 1st its hard but it is doable
also note in one of your links One_iota hasn't experienced it either..so perhaps he has now after all you did drag up a thread that was started in 08

oh, and just by the by....

check this thread....

Defender Anti-Stall

oh and

Defender Anti-Stall

that one, in particular
this post
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/847023-post6.html
this
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/848784-post8.html (which if its to be believed indicates that antistall doesnt always work but that lines up with something I've managed to do in a puma deefer and since I don't own one myself to experience it cant possabley be true)...as above you only have to say...as far as I wass aware from what you had written you drove one once

and this post
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/743239-post27.html by me which reads decidedly similar to the one that camel_landy put up that I've quoted earlier.

Yep, I must be jaded against them...

oh wait...


Did you find who said that yet?

you have a nice day now.

mmmmmm

This is so boring and pointless. I was not going to respond because we've heard it all before but I was bored and the motor racing has finished
.
Dave,

Anyone can compile a scrapbook by cutting out and pasting in the bits that take their fancy.

I wonder what your mission is.

But as I have been quoted I will add that the Defender suits my needs very well....those needs have changed from those that made my Disco "the best Land Rover ever made". I now think that my Defender is the best Land Rover ever made. So go figure.

Have you seen the movie "8 Mile"? A great movie.

Eminem delivers the killer line towards the end and it goes something like this with a Land Rover spin applied:

"Now tell us something about the latest Defender that we don't already know".

Thought I better put this in

Id love to be able to offer more but Im at the distinct disadvantage of my sum total experience with the engine is less than 120minutes and none of that was doing diagnostics work or spannering so I dont know its nuaces and Im relying on generic principals instead of R/l experience.

written by you......this was after you gave me a big low down of what the garage probably never changed on my car to which I replied for you not to be so negative and to give me some good news. from that point on you were very helpful..and I thank you through the best part of that thread.

Like I said before dave never dined you are a knowledgeable guy.....but sometimes just sometimes it gets a little bit frustrating when people come into threads and bag out......with words like believing wankspeak etc etc. You may not personally feel you are bagging them out but that is how I have read a lot of your posts....you are not the only person that does it by far either.

I and I'm sure like other are getting fed up of coming on here and having to defender our ride to people that
1. Just think we talk **** because they work on bigger and better engines
2. just dont believe us even though it is us personally that have experience stuff on it
3. can't stand ford there for our cars must be ****
4. slag the car off because it has electrics
5. slag the car off because it has teething problems

and I'm sure there is many many more....

I can still remember in my head the absolute slating they got before they were even released...

It gets tiresome.......

and these comments didn't help..you knew it was going to ruffle feather because you said you were wereing an asbestos suit.....
now why would it ruffle feathers? if it is not something we are subjected to a lot.

Stupid question

Stupid question

Stupid question

I have come to the end here so you can say what you like Dave......
I have done my best to show why it ****es us off so much, I have run out of drive..

Hopefully members after reading this drival might just think for a second how these comments make us feel and when posting them ad a few emoticons to ease the annoyance or even in some case the reality of it and keep it as a joke and or a tease/ribbing!!!

Now I would like to say I'm going to go for a drive in my pussy of an engined car that is under powered and made by people that like to talk wankspeak, but I can't because the car is in the garage having an engine change

Maybe we should remove the word "question" from the thread title and add "and pointless."

Originally Posted by crump

Maybe we should remove the word "question" from the thread title and add "and pointless."

i would crump but I dont think stupid pointless has a ring to it

I can change it to a "stupid question, that turn in to a stupid pointless thread"

I just wish that people would use the search engine....

Puma owners - important message