Thread: More talk of new defender

Originally Posted by flagg

All true, and I do agree /in principle/.

Its just that chances are we will just end up with a D3 with a more boxy body and cloth seats. Nothing more than a D3 with "style queues" of urban ruggedness - but without the actual ruggedness (aka hummer 2,3)

then again, maybe that is the future that we will have to learn to love.

The whole point of the defender is that it has no style queues. It is completely function over form. Spending years trying to recreate that just seems a little too ironic.

But, it is a Friday so maybe I'm just a little too synical

A ray of light may be Tata wanting something simple that they can sell into the 3rd world..

But (again) the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I guess we all just have to wait and see. If, however it has ANY chrome on it. It's over.

I presume that by queue you mean cue, and by synical you mean cynical?

It is probably possible to build an acceptable Defender replacement on the D3 platform, although I am not too convinced that Landrover will do it!

Some of the features that are necessary to have the Defender name in my view:-

Flat, sweep out or hose out floors.

Flat glass.

Ability to have a variety of body styles, including five door wagon, four door dual cab trayback, two door three seat trayback, all with parts commonality.

Largely alloy body.

John

It would have to be acceptable for the military whatever it turns out to be.The best thing is I very much doubt it will go high tech as TATA would want it sold in India and other third world countries,LR have the last basic large 4wd platform left in the world and they are in the box seat as far as supplying a vehicle that can cater for that market.I hope they drop a wider body onto the exsisting chassis and use the 2.7 power train. Pat

Originally Posted by PAT303

It would have to be acceptable for the military whatever it turns out to be.The best thing is I very much doubt it will go high tech as TATA would want it sold in India and other third world countries,LR have the last basic large 4wd platform left in the world and they are in the box seat as far as supplying a vehicle that can cater for that market.I hope they drop a wider body onto the exsisting chassis and use the 2.7 power train. Pat

Yes, that works for me too, and so does JDNSW's list. What we need is a billionaire on the forum who can commission a redesigned Defender that keeps what we like and adds what we want. We'd then ship it to LR and say "Here, build this".

I'm sure most of you have seen the link below already (sorry if it's a repost), but it's interesting what Phil Popham (LR Managing Director) said about the Defender a couple of weeks ago when he was in Aus - particularly;

However, Mr Popham cautioned that although the current Defender’s relatively low global sales volume of about 25,000 vehicles annually is not enough to justify the development of an all-new platform, a wider customer base could do so.

He said Land Rover was still studying the complex equation of maintaining the Defender’s hallmark off-road ability while attracting the broader number of sales required for it to develop a fully redesigned vehicle.

“The dilemma we’ve got as a company, when it comes to replacing an icon like Defender, is you’re replacing a car that is known throughout the world and has been for 61 years, but its sells 25,000 units a year – not a lot in the automotive industry and not a lot within our portfolio of products at the moment,” he said.

“You've got to sell a lot more than 25,000 vehicles off a new platform to make business sense.”

Asked by GoAuto what Defender volume would make a replacement viable, Mr Popham said: “If you significantly simplify it on a modern platform, you still need to sell about 50,000 units a year to make it viable.”

He said number was achievable because the Defender is not currently sold in all countries in its present guise because of various regulations that preclude it but a Defender on a modern platform would open up more markets, including the United States.

“We’re a small player in the commercial business which is probably three million vehicles a year. We need to understand what segments it can compete in, what body styles it needs to have, what level of capability, usage, duty cycle it’s going to have – and that’s the work we're doing at the moment.

“Defining exactly where it will sit will dictate what the car needs to do – how it needs to be engineered – and that will prove or disprove the business case,” he said.

But a decision not to go on would not be taken lightly. “(Defender) is our heritage. It underlines our history, our origins, our engineering credibility and leadership, and it’s passed on a lot of positive things to the products that followed.”

Land Rover says it will replace Defender, but is yet to decide its form

Given my total lack of actual automotive knowledge, why is it that the Defender doesn't meet Euro pedestrian and emission laws (upcoming), and is something similar going to happen to the Toyota equivalent?

Originally Posted by JamesH

What we need is a billionaire on the forum who can commission a redesigned Defender that keeps what we like and adds what we want. We'd then ship it to LR and say "Here, build this".

There's already a bad precedent for this - The Homer;

I know this is a bit off topic, but here's a link to a potential Land Rover Replacement for the Australian Army....

Thales Protected Mobility Vehicles

The Thales Bushmasters are already being used - this is like it's smaller brother...

Originally Posted by Dmmos

...........
Given my total lack of actual automotive knowledge, why is it that the Defender doesn't meet Euro pedestrian and emission laws (upcoming), and is something similar going to happen to the Toyota equivalent?

The emissions rules can almost certainly be met simply by engine changes, although an increasing problem is likely to be carbon dioxide emissions, and it is unlikely to be possible to reduce these sufficiently without reducing mass substantially - not possible with the current basic design. But carbon dioxide emissions are not an immediate concern.

The pedestrian impact laws can quite likely be met by new front panel design, and possibly modifying the front of the chassis forward of the steering box - this could be done without changing the basic design, but the problem is that it would not look like a current Defender, and the new panel pressings would represent a substantial investment in tooling, to the extent you have to think carefully about spending that much money on a basic design that is sixty years old rather than spending a bit more on a new design. A new design could incorporate all the other improvements such as better ergonomics and airbags etc that would allow it to sell in the USA. But to do a new design on a similar chassis has to be carefully weighed against the advantages of doing a new design that shares major chassis design with other models.

I don't think Toyota is worried about selling in Europe.

John

Originally Posted by Dmmos

...
Given my total lack of actual automotive knowledge, why is it that the Defender doesn't meet Euro pedestrian and emission laws (upcoming), and is something similar going to happen to the Toyota equivalent?

As I understand it, from 2012 Defender will also have to comply with ABS, SRS and stability control requirements.