Thread: Saving the World with hydrogen just took a step closer

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

I like hydrogen yet one way seem to have a rather scary possible OUCH. "BP plans to build Britain's largest hydrogen plant by 2030

The Teesside plant in northern England will have capacity of up to 1 gigawatt (GW) of so-called blue hydrogen,............

Does anyone else think all the talk of grey/blue/turquoise Hydrogen is like putting filters on cigarettes, ideally only green hydrogen should be acceptable. I can accept sequestering the hydrogen production CO2 by-product as long as it doesn't leak out.

A week with a hydrogen-powered Toyota.

Where will I fill up? My week driving Toyota’s hydrogen car in locked down Melbourne | Energy | The Guardian

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

A week with a hydrogen-powered Toyota.

Where will I fill up? My week driving Toyota’s hydrogen car in locked down Melbourne | Energy | The Guardian

That vehicle has been on sale for many years in the US.

Certainly much more convenient for many than EV,once hydrogen fuel stations become more common, but the price of the fuel will put potential buyers off, no doubt.

Fueling a clean energy future, today, with greener than green hydrogen.


Business turning rubbish into Hydrogen "

Washington DC-based waste-to-hydrogen company SGH2 Energy will supply 3,850 tonnes of “greener-than-green” H

₂

annually to two of California's largest owners and operators of hydrogen refuelling stations under a ten-year contract.

"

Hazer in WA has a probably more cost effective method than SGH2 I suspect.

The lady with range anxiety in the Melbourne Toyota Mirai test drive during lock down was funny. Her Anxiety with enough range to drive around the outside of Melbourne left was a bit paranoid I felt.

I like hydrogen as the fuel for energy going forward.
The possibilities of it's acceptance won't be realised properly in our lifetimes, just like the future of the automobile wasn't fully realised to those 130 odd years ago too.

They were damned expensive for one thing .. as well as many other issues that came with owning one. Parts, services, fuel ..

The songs says history never repeats, but me thinks it does .. time and again it seems to repeat with monotonous regularity.

Of course a new system, that's not entrenched into our every day lives will be expensive, annoying to live with, and so on, but it's not for us.

It's our duty to begin the process of embedding it onto every day society, so that say in 20 or 30 years time, filling up at a gas station is just an every day thing they will just do .. like it's nothing abnormal.
Toyota's Mirai is some ridiculous $80K or something, for (basically) a Corolla!

So many players are charging hard and fast coz it needs to be the future.
Battery powered vehicles are a silly idea, especially Lithium types. if they figure out a more sustainable battery type that is truly 100% renewable, then no problem.

Toyota are hedging their bets on hydrogen in more ways than one ...

Hydrogen Race Car

fuel cell and combustion engined types too.
if it helps to normalise hydrogen as an acceptable energy source, then they will all be better for it.

One day in the future the costs/greeniness/supply chain/safety levels issues will all work themselves out, and those future folks will have less to worry about.

... well, until the next fatalistic planet killing issue will crop up for them to concern themselves with.

More techy info and math numbers on the hydrogen race car can be found at the engineer chap on youtube too.



I found some idiot on the web denigrating the performance of the vehicle in the race, with some idiot remark that it only raced 12 hours of the 24hour race!
Does it not occur to people that development comes with issues? not going to link to his article.

One thing that is worthy of mentioning, is that while the race car may have had it's fair share to issues, it did seem to maintain itself(and its fuel) as a whole ... and not end up in a rapid exothermic expansion situation.
Unlike other, historical, lighter than air modes of transport may have in the past.

Depends where hydrogen is deployed. Currently billions of tonnes used in fertilizers, our current fuels, Rocket fuel and other uses. The race is not necessarily in cars.

I have a spreadsheet of $$$ investmented in Hydrogen. It has a column for Confirmed and possible Hype


"Arab economies jostle for position in $200 billion green hydrogen race" was news over the last few days and may need a new geographical column?


"RIYADH: Another week, another huge green hydrogen project announcement in the Middle East. This time, it was Egypt’s turn. The most populous Arab nation is planning to invest up to $4 billion in a project to create hydrogen through electrolysis powered by renewable energy, Egyptian Minister of Electricity and Renewable Energy Mohamed Shaker said on June 14.
The disclosure follows a flurry of announcements last month, including Oman’s plan for the biggest green hydrogen plant in the world, to be built over the coming 27 years along with 25 GW of solar and wind power.
Also in May, Dubai launched the region’s first industrial scale solar-powered green hydrogen plant, a demonstration facility built by Siemens Energy and Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (DEWA).
Later in the month, Abu Dhabi got in on the act as it revealed plans for a $1 billion facility with capacity to produce 200,000 tons of green ammonia from 40,000 tons of green hydrogen (hydrogen is turned into ammonia for long-distance transport before being transformed back for use).
As for Saudi Arabia, it unveiled plans in July last year for a green hydrogen facility powered by 4 GW of wind and solar, the world’s largest such project at the time. The $5 billion plant will be built by Air Products, ACWA Power and Neom and will be capable of producing 650 tons of green hydrogen a day, enough to run about 20,000 hydrogen-fueled buses.
“The Middle East has joined the green hydrogen wave with mega project announcements,” said Flor Lucia De la Cruz, a senior research analyst for hydrogen and emerging technologies at Wood Mackenzie. “The Middle East has now positioned itself to become a key player in the green hydrogen economy leveraging its solar and wind capabilities and strategic position in between the European and Asian markets.”

"

Suspected non CO2 hydrogen wave is growing daily. Not pretending there are no risks of course. If this is not all hype we just might have one of the biggest in the world. Asian Renewable Energy Hub

Proof is in delivery of course.

There is a $50b green hydrogen export proposal for WA, but it has just run into an environmental issue. Not posting the link because of politics, but the story is easy to find.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

There is a $50b green hydrogen export proposal for WA, but it has just run into an environmental issue. Not posting the link because of politics, but the story is easy to find.

I wondered if it was mostly to do with a change from QLD. skip that as it is political The environmental impact of the Asian renewable energy hub would have considerations. Odd the news is BLOCK it when its scale was proposed to be bigger than many countries so isolated areas of that proposal could be moved if needed?

Looking at 50+ hydrogen trains yesterday coradia Ilint order and deliveries - Checking re the fuel cells- It is Cummings making/supplying those ones. If one of the biggest in industrial big engines. A Canadian Ballard is no laggard and hyzon fuel cells is making waves with fuel cellls as well.
"Cummins 200kW fuel cell system is the world's first heavy-duty fuel cell composition with fuel cell power modules, water management, hydrogen management, power systems, heat management and control system—all in a roof-mounted rack."

A chat I listened to last night suggested a $1 per kilo hydrogen pump price before 2030 made reference to Australia and the Asian renewable energy hub. The number is WOW. Sub $3-5 per kilo hydrogen at the pump price would obliterate ICE as a fuel preference on purely a cost basis. The biggest cost of transport is not a million $ truck or train. Its the many multiples in fuel cost over the life of a large transport of any kind ship, train or truck.

That last fact was suggested by from CEO of Hyzon motors who is an Aussie. He made a comment all project prior to know were Bespoke one off and very expensive. His fuel cell products, like Cummins, are able to integrate with many platforms.

Not sure if I scratch off the line for the possible investment from the Asian renewable energy hub yet as I expect a few changes might see it happily the biggest H project in the world. Hope so as an investment in a H shipping design engineering company I have might get hammered otherwise