Thread: Electric vehicles, progress (from a marketing perspective)

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Yes. Much of the current Queensland coal production owes its existence to shotholes drilled for seismic exploration for oil in the 1960s - supplemented by water bores.

There was a coal mine here, on my next door neighbour's place - shut down after NSWGR went diesel in the 1960s, or probably before that when the local passenger service (discontinued in 1973) went from steam to rail motor, I think, 1949.

My mate was working for the exploration company quite recently, from about 2005 to 2012. Their search was specifically for commercial deposits of coal.

There were lots of small mines in Qld. that supplied coal to the railways particularly on the Ipswich-Rosewood field. Most closed down beginning with the bulk closure of branch lines to when the railways went diesel, the council power station that supplied the tramways closed, and the various gasworks went to natural and reformed petroleum gases (refinery waste). Was not NSW the last rail system in Oz to use steam locos?

There was a walk-in coal mine near Katoomba, long closed.

And the funicular is still serving a very useful purpose of transporting tourists down to where the mine was.
Regards Philip A

Tesla may not be in the EV mix.

Elon Musk's Tesla cars might not be the next big thing after all

Far be it from me to defend Elon Musk but I think these articles are a bit of a beat up.

From what I see the loss in DELIVERIES is due to transit time.

Ships don't go every day so they have to be stockpiled on wharfs awaiting the arrival, then it takes time for the ship to reach Europe and unload.
So the deliveries may be delayed to the next quarter. If there is a similar situation at the end of the second quarter then start to doubt.
Imagine the delay if/when he starts shipping to OZ.
Regards Philip A

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

..... Was not NSW the last rail system in Oz to use steam locos?

I have not been able to confirm that - last steam in NSW was in February 1973, with the AD60 locomotive. This was kept on long after other steam locomotives, mainly because they were not only the most powerful locomotives in Australia at the time, but they were able to operate on all lines in the state, where most of the other powerful locos were restricted to main lines. Of course, these days (and for many years) the power of individual locos has been less important - they can operate as many as necessary as multiple units.

Er I think they used to run a Garret and another engine up the hill from Brooklyn in the steam days.
Regards Philip A

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Er I think they used to run a Garret and another engine up the hill from Brooklyn in the steam days.
Regards Philip A

Yes - some grades regularly double banked in the steam days - but this is not the same as running multiple diesel-electrics. Each of the steam locos is fully crewed, but with multiple diesel locos only one crew is needed, and they are all controlled from the front one.

Originally Posted by AK83

I watched the video twice, and both times I failed to see where he added the emissions output in the production of the fuel for the ICE dependent car as well.
That is, he calculated the emissions output of the ICE vehicle, and then compared the emissions output of the EV vehicle, but never factored the additional emissions output to manufacture and distribute the fuel used for ICE.

So, the emissions output advantage of the EV will be a shorter time frame than he's calculated.

I still don't think battery powered EVs are the long term future, and why the hydrogen fuel/fuel cell option is the best way forward .. long term.
EVs now are the better option going into the future too, as they're easy(er) to then redesign to then switch over to a fuel cell setup.

Wind power shouldn't be a difficult task to use as the option for H2 production in the future.
The two downsides to wind power are lack of wind and what to do when there's too much power in the grid when the wind is still blowing?

Both issues shouldn't be too hard to offset adding hydrolysis mechanisms into their operation(apart from other storage mechanisms) into their overall power setups.
That is, when the wind is blowing and over capacity in the grid, then the wind turbine would then continue power production and channel that into hydrolysis.
The current favoured path for power storage for wind power is to refill hydro stations as a battery/storage system .. but why not a localised hydrolysis system instead?

What do you do when there's an excess of power production capability, and the grid is already at capacity? ... you keep the generators generating and then turn that into a potential energy .. whether that's battery storage(stupid idea on a large scale!) .. or refilling hydro network .. or better yet. . make H2

My main issue is vehicle cost.
I'm not rich, and I'm not the only one that's in this situation.
$40-70K for a new car .. just to feel better about myself coz I'm doing a part for the environment .. never going to happen.
Govt needs to step up to the task here and make it an option in whatever way they can .. eg. zero interest loans for exactly this purpose. eg. say I need $40-70K for a vehicle, if they had a 10-15yr no interest loan system that would cost me say $5K/yr to replay .. it'd be worth my while to seriously consider it.
As of now tho .. to get finance for a car that will end up costing me 2x the amount of initial purchase over a 5 year term .. AND to lose all that value due to depreciation! .. err no thanks .. I'd rather keep on outputting my CO2 allocation

There are literally million of 'Me's' in a similar situation .. a govt system would be 'household' means tested, so the already well off wouldn't then rip off the system to make it a viable mechanism.
This way the glacial pace of uptake that is invariably inherent with any new tech would be accelerated .. and the usual supply/demand mechanism would take over and new industries and markets are formed .. jobs and growth as former political party used to shout and dance about not too long ago.

if no one is driving hydrogen powered vehicles due to impossible an impossible price point, then the entire system is going to be a niche. lets say even 1000 vehicles on the roads .. across what ... 50K klms of road network?? .. how many refill stations would you expect to see?
How much H2 production would you expect to be made?
Give people the ability to buy into the system, x 1 million .. and I'm sure there's a rich fella somewhere rubbing their hands at the prospect of tapping into those billions.

Same thing happened all those years ago with diesel fuelled vehicles and LPG.
Even maybe 30 years ago .. try to find a non trucking type petrol station that sold diesel? Wasn't as easy as it is now. I can't remember the last time I drive past a petrol station that didn't sell diesel.
Same with LPG .. had to drive for miles to fill up back in the mid to late 80's .. then the LPG rebate came up as a govt scheme, and BAM!

Sorry don’t know how to do the mini quotes.

To your original point: no calc’s on the transport and production of fossils. This just furthers the argument for EV’s, he gives ICE’s every benefit of the doubt and they still come out as higher emitters (not to mention the missing calculations). Then there’s the noxious emissions; nitrous oxides etc.

EV’s are only a good economical choice for very few households (big yearly km’s and renewable self sufficient energy sources at home)

Would love to see tax breaks but at the end of the day someone has to pay for it (us)

There is a Diesel engine by achates I would like to see being produced in the interim. Manufacturers could use current machines to make the engine. Has less parts so production prices and emissions go down there, as well as the engine itself uses around 30% less fuel with good power

Battery tech is moving at an exponential rate. Long term storage will evolve first and then storage for vehicles second (more tech hurdles). From what I have read, and if I understand correctly, when we have nanotechnology sussed/production process refined we will clock the silicon electrode batteries (I don’t fully understand this tech, just know to move forward has something to do with silicone/glass layer thickness)

I’ve seen some interesting long range economic forecasts for EV v’s ICE. I don’t think we will have many personal use ICE vehicles being produced past 2025 and probably none past 2030

I don’t know much about hydrogen. Never looked into it. It does get shot down rather quickly in any discussion i’ve ever seen, but I have to admit ignorance.