EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by Homestar

They should be using one of these as their demo vehicles then because what I drove made me run a mile. It says something about 'Murican manufacturing quality when the Chinese built units are far superior... [biggrin]

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Yeah.. it's one of those things.. The cars get out there.. people whinge.. more people whinge.. the factory says "ok we better do something".. they get someone to cook a fix.. and by the time the parts actually get through and put on a car.. six months is really pretty fast. Given the shipping issues no car in Aus would have had this before probably late Feb. I'll admit the car we drove on the test drive seemed ok, but then they pretty much tell you where you can drive. It's short and the roads are smooth and frankly you're pretty highly loaded with new stuff. Suspension is the kind of thing you have to drive around for a bit.

As to quality.. I'm in all the Tesla user groups. The common theme is "when will my car get here". "I've got a screw in my tyre". "How do I charge my car". It's refreshing to not see "my car is rubbish and keeps breaking". "This thing has failed like all the others".

It's early days yet but it's promising. I've had legacy cars that had already got off to a solid start at disassembling themselves by week three.

Life cycle emissions looks clearly in favor and will get even better as mining sector gets cleaned up with small nuclear power and hydrogen.
"Electricity production is by far the most emission-intensive stage in a BEVs life cycle. Decarbonizing the electricity sector by implementing renewable and nuclear energy sources can significantly reduce these vehicles’ use phase emissions."

Power sector here in OZ is anti nuclear idiots still of course 😭😭😔Life Cycle Emissions: EVs vs. Combustion Engine Vehicles

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

Life cycle emissions looks clearly in favor and will get even better as mining sector gets cleaned up with small nuclear power and hydrogen.
"Electricity production is by far the most emission-intensive stage in a BEVs life cycle. Decarbonizing the electricity sector by implementing renewable and nuclear energy sources can significantly reduce these vehicles’ use phase emissions."

Power sector here in OZ is anti nuclear idiots still of course 😭😭😔Life Cycle Emissions: EVs vs. Combustion Engine Vehicles

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The thing is - if you buy an EV now.. it's only going to get better environmentally as our grid decarbonises. If you buy an ICE engined vehicle - it's not going to change. It's going to keep burning fuel until it's scrapped.

It would appear to me that it's a polarising subject. There is a lot of things that people don't understand, and there is a lot of poor or downright misleading information being put out there. Also, EV's and charging infrastructure are making large leaps continually. IMHO if your current car doesn't need replacing - keep driving it. That's the best outcome. If it does need replacement and it's role can be done by an EV then have a solid look and see if one will meet your needs. If it works for you - get the EV.

After one month (tomorrow) of EV ownership - the family is stoked with our choice. It does everything we need and it's supremely comfortable. It's a great bit of gear and is really next level in so many ways. That's the pay off.. they are really comfortable and convenient cars.

The surprises have been how efficient it is. The sticker said 160 wh/k and the long term average is turning out to be less than 140. Drove from Yarraman to home (north side BNE) yesterday (168k) with an average of 114wh/100.

While people say the charging infrastructure is going ahead, I don’t see this anywhere I go. I live in the 6th largest City in Victoria and we have 1 (broken) ev charger and no plans for any more according to Council, so if you live outside of Metro Melbourne you just seem to be **** out of luck. I’ve got better things to do with my time than plan where I need to go in the hope there’s a working ev charger when I get there.

It’s just too damn hard at the moment - I’m thinking another 10 years yet before there’s a decent network and that’s if there’s enough power to go around.

I work with an Electrical mob that install Tesla charging stations and they cost millions each for around 10 chargers as new switchboards, HV subs and miles of cabling are needed for each one. How long is this business model going to work for Tesla before they stop building them?

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

The thing is - if you buy an EV now.. it's only going to get better environmentally as our grid decarbonises. If you buy an ICE engined vehicle - it's not going to change. It's going to keep burning fuel until it's scrapped.

It would appear to me that it's a polarising subject. There is a lot of things that people don't understand, and there is a lot of poor or downright misleading information being put out there. Also, EV's and charging infrastructure are making large leaps continually. IMHO if your current car doesn't need replacing - keep driving it. That's the best outcome. If it does need replacement and it's role can be done by an EV then have a solid look and see if one will meet your needs. If it works for you - get the EV.

After one month (tomorrow) of EV ownership - the family is stoked with our choice. It does everything we need and it's supremely comfortable. It's a great bit of gear and is really next level in so many ways. That's the pay off.. they are really comfortable and convenient cars.

The surprises have been how efficient it is. The sticker said 160 wh/k and the long term average is turning out to be less than 140. Drove from Yarraman to home (north side BNE) yesterday (168k) with an average of 114wh/100.

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It’s Carbon shifting, not decarbonisation.

Agree that any vehicle that suits a users needs is a good car.
Benefit of EV ride over same size bodies is mass, they’re significantly heavier which improves comfort.

I did a quick back of envelope calculation the other day around increased mass on roads - which greatly contributes to wear and tear - and it’s significant. As EVs become dominant we will see increased road surface wear, and increased maintenance requirements.

Increased tyre consumption will be a side effect of heavier for size vehicles.

The emissions aren’t being reduced in any way by EVs with current tech.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

While people say the charging infrastructure is going ahead, I don’t see this anywhere I go. I live in the 6th largest City in Victoria and we have 1 (broken) ev charger and no plans for any more according to Council, so if you live outside of Metro Melbourne you just seem to be **** out of luck. I’ve got better things to do with my time than plan where I need to go in the hope there’s a working ev charger when I get there.

It’s just too damn hard at the moment - I’m thinking another 10 years yet before there’s a decent network and that’s if there’s enough power to go around.

I work with an Electrical mob that install Tesla charging stations and they cost millions each for around 10 chargers as new switchboards, HV subs and miles of cabling are needed for each one. How long is this business model going to work for Tesla before they stop building them?

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Fully agree at one level. The roll out is slow. The Camperdown and Geelong CCS chargers in Western Vic are game changes for my short range quirky one. It was going to be sold about now. I am happy to wait for a MUCH better option now with my cheap ev[biggrin]

DID I say how much I hate TELSA chargers I have driven past for the last few years[bawl] Ford and GM deal with my nemesis may make Mr Musk devious plan work for Tesla share holder at last? In the US only of course. I am at work honestly. Proof attachedAttachment 185959 its 32 right now[biggrin]Riding a scooter tonight so NO beer in hand

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Originally Posted by Tombie

It’s Carbon shifting, not decarbonisation.

Agree that any vehicle that suits a users needs is a good car.
Benefit of EV ride over same size bodies is mass, they’re significantly heavier which improves comfort.

I did a quick back of envelope calculation the other day around increased mass on roads - which greatly contributes to wear and tear - and it’s significant. As EVs become dominant we will see increased road surface wear, and increased maintenance requirements.

Increased tyre consumption will be a side effect of heavier for size vehicles.

The emissions aren’t being reduced in any way by EVs with current tech.

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You don't have to worry about Ev's damaging the roads, the trucks are doing that already.

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Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

You don't have to worry about Ev's damaging the roads, the trucks are doing that already.

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Yes. Light vehicles are responsible for an insignificant proportion of road damage compared to trucks, especially on major roads. (There may be some increase on roads that rarely see trucks, but have a lot of cars, such as some suburban "rat runs", but these would be pretty rare.

The reason for this is that damage to roads is proportional to axle load - and axle load of trucks is way higher than the axle load of even the heaviest EVs. Even worse, damage is probably more closely proportional to the square of axle load.

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Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

You don't have to worry about Ev's damaging the roads, the trucks are doing that already.

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Yeah, but trucks pay a LOT in rego for the privilege of doing this - ours at work are just over $10K a year each to register. Maybe EV rego should go up in line with this? [bigwhistle]

As mentioned trucks do add a lot of wear and are charged accordingly.

However, on suburban roads, where damage is obvious, it’s a product of cars. Rarely is a HV seen in these areas.

Any increase in mass will add to degradation, it has to. So increasing the average weight of ALL road going vehicles does has a compounding effect.

To claim otherwise and blame trucks as the sole cause is nonsense.



In all this current nonsense, the only winner is the car manufacturers.

No emissions are reduced - simply relocated.

Price exceeds equivalent fuel burn cost for average life of vehicle. Payback on an EV for my mother vs a petrol version exceeds her predicted life expectancy!

And the most significant impact - take a look at where some of the materials for your “clean” batteries come from and the human cost. If it wasn’t mined in such a perverse manner of rights abuse and payment - nobody could afford to buy one.

Nope - these EVs in their current form are an absolute disaster. Meeting a trend in the West whilst only fixing localised problems at the detriment of greater issues.