EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by PhilipA;[URL="tel:3230731"

3230731[/URL]]Are you aware that horses were used well into the 1940-and 50s in areas that for many reasons that cars/trucks were impractical.
The German army used over 1 million horses in WW2 .
Horses were used in agriculture up to the 1950s in many areas of agriculture and even to deliver milk into AFAIR the 70s . I can still recall the "proppo" man in Brisbane when I was a kid.
They were used to dig dams and delve agriculture canals into the 50s and maybe later.
On the other hand ICE vehicles took over where they had a demonstrable advantage. My Father and his family ran a bus service over the Burringbar range in the 20s. Horses would have been too slow and had much difficulty with the mountains.
In London in the early 20s the authorities had great difficulty removing the horse excrement from the streets so cars took over there quite early.
The point is that where there was a demonstrable advantage ICE took over without subsidies or Government dictat.
Currently there is no advantage for EV over ICE if government taxes on ICE were removed and EV subsidies removed. In UK it is more expensive to use an EV on a long trip using public chargers than it is to drive an ICE car. The same has to happen here eventually.
Regards PhilipA

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Spot on. All human progress happened without coercion. Uptake of all things such as the power look, mechanical printing press and mobile phone took place as people realised their advantages. The ICE car was no different.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

My Father and his family ran a bus service over the Burringbar range in the 20s.

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RESPECT, sixty years of progress later, that piece of road put the fear of God into me, almost daily.

Over here the government makes a lot of money from the motorist. Fuel is heavily taxed. It is an easy tax to collect. There seems to be bit of a quandry regarding electric vehicles. The more there are the less petrol/diesel is sold so the government collects less fuel duty. So while pushing the EV agenda there is a realisation that they will need to correct the loss of revenue from petrol/diesel. There had been ideas raised about taxing vehicles on their weight.
The people who buy the electric cars are used to getting a new vehicle subsidised by everyone else and cheap charging if done at home. If the petrol and diesel mode of transport goes the way the government is pushing it, the electric vehicle owners will have to pay a lot more to make up the short fall. We will see how sales hold up then.
This will make you laugh at the short sightedness of government thinking.

"Tanaiste says it's 'only a matter of time' before all Irish tractors are electric" (Tanaiste is our second in command)
Tanaiste says it's 'only a matter of time' before all Irish tractors are electric - Irish Mirror Online
There are agricultural contractors here and certain times of the year they work 24 hours a day. Drivers change and a bowser comes to fill the tractor. They move on to the next job until the busy cycle ends. An electric tractor, especially a high horse power one would not be suitable for this. The down time for charging would cut into working hours. Heavy work would drain the battery quickly.
I have seen large tractors ploughing on damp ground and they were working hard. I cannot see an electric tractor being able to do this for hours on end. A small electric tractor might be good for small part time operations but not for heavy farm work. Also I do not see where you could put a lot of battaries on a tractor.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I think its extraordinarily unlikely the average family car will be an EV. The 2nd/wifes cars. Now that is a possibility. Guess why twin cab utes are so prevalent. You can carry stuff, you can tow stuff ... you can tow 300+km and refill in 5 minutes ... an electric car cannot do any of this. if I had an electric car here, it would probably get parked with all the wrecks over under the pine trees. What the hell would I want with it? It can't tow my car trailer, can't tow the caravan, can't be used on anything other than perfect sealed roads, can't carry a decent load, can't teach my kids to drive in it.... It would be a pointless fire risk to have around the house. I sure as hell would never park it near the house or shed, so how could I even charge the useless thing?

Look at this from this point of view, I go out and buy a stupidly expnesive battery ride on mower from bunnings. Year 1 -> 3 it might cut all the grass ... by year 5 it takes me 3 days to cut the grass if its long. By year six I'm looking at thousands of dollars worth of batteries to "save the environment and me money"....... Or I could just keep using my perfect running probably 30 year old AMC ride on mower that was made in bendigo .... and my ****ty old worn out tractor (made in geelong) that has a million hours on it .... but still always starts and always cuts the yard no problems. It costs me maybe $100 a year in diesel and maybe $150 every 5 years for a start battery.

the battery crap is just lunacy. It would make sense if I lived on a postage stamp in town and had 15 blades of grass to cut. Especially if I owned battery tools that shared the battery.

I find even the electric lawn mower idea interesting. Its another thing I'd just throw under the pine trees in the scrap pile and never look at again. However, I could give it to my father and it would be magic for the tiny bit of grass they have :)

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I cannot comment on the efficacy of electric lawn mowers. I'm still rocking my 25 YO honda.

Again and again my argument is not that EV's can replace the aussie love of utes. At this point they still can't be replaced by an EV. My point again and again is from the point of view of a city dweller. Why does every car in a family need to be an EV? Why do we need 4 double cab utes per family.?

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

I cannot comment on the efficacy of electric lawn mowers. I'm still rocking my 25 YO honda.

Again and again my argument is not that EV's can replace the aussie love of utes. At this point they still can't be replaced by an EV. My point again and again is from the point of view of a city dweller. Why does every car in a family need to be an EV? Why do we need 4 double cab utes per family.?

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4 twin cab utes per family? I have never seen this. Most families have two cars. the "big" car that is drive by whoever does the least miles and the small efficient car. Who owns four twin cab utes? I've never heard of such a thing.

You still don't get it, the ev can NEVER replace a twin cab ute. as soon as you try to tow or carry anything they are just a laughing stock. I guess there is that electric car in new zealand that managed to to a little boat to the local boat ramp and back (we will ignore the fact it burst into flames and burnt the house down when it got home).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBHFHKmRwuA

like i said, I have nothing against electric cars, but we need to be sensible. they can and only will work for the small minority (local driving, offstreet parking, etc).

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

4 twin cab utes per family? I have never seen this. Most families have two cars. the "big" car that is drive by whoever does the least miles and the small efficient car. Who owns four twin cab utes? I've never heard of such a thing.

You still don't get it, the ev can NEVER replace a twin cab ute. as soon as you try to tow or carry anything they are just a laughing stock. I guess there is that electric car in new zealand that managed to to a little boat to the local boat ramp and back (we will ignore the fact it burst into flames and burnt the house down when it got home).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBHFHKmRwuA

like i said, I have nothing against electric cars, but we need to be sensible. they can and only will work for the small minority (local driving, offstreet parking, etc).

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Interesting. I live only a few K's from the Brisbane CBD. For the life of me I can't get this to load as a photo. You should be able click on the link below.

This photo is a few houses from me up the street. The cars from right to left. Nissan Tida Daughter. Toyota Hilux son. Mazda BT50 ute thing (dad). Toyota Hilux son (still on Ls). Mitsubishi Prado Wife. No I've never seen any evidence that any of them have been off road. No they only own a box trailer which is also stored on street.

House next to me. Raptor (dad). Mum has a jeep thingy.

House across the road. Dad and two boys, Three 4x4.

And so it goes. All up and down my street and around the suburb. It's easy to see because most houses are too low to fit a full 4x4 in. I'm sorry.. you can't convince me that EVERYONE needs a 4x4/SUV.

Attachment 190833

https://photos.app.goo.gl/d8GBxK12WiY8A2BU6
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

I have to say I loved my Ryobi electric mower. It weighed almost nothing and I could lift it down my 5 steps from the back yard to the front with one hand. I had 2 5Ah batteries and it would juuust do the job. My trusty old Rover weighed about 30Kg and is still going strong for the bloke I gave it to. Now in the retirement village no need for a mower.

I changed all my air tools for Ryobi and the Ryobi rattle gun is stronger than my old air rattle gun. Currently I have Ryobi whipper snipper, blower, drill, rattle gun, grinder, hand vacuum and air pump.( and a rattle gun in the caravan to lower the legs).

At present I have a Ford Everest 3.2 as it tows the van well, and my wife has a Honda Jazz. An EV is not under consideration for even the second car as my wife needs to go to golf courses which can be up to 200-250Km away and no guarantee that she could recharge. Anyway we do not have the money for even a Nissan Leaf with 80km range.LOL. Particularly now I doubt many median income people could afford a $30K second car.
My daughter would like a dual cab ute but no money with house repayments up thousands a month. They have a Kia Sportage and a 2013 Jazz and I think this is pretty typical although her and husband's income is way above median.
I doubt ANY family has 4 twin cab utes although I recognise this is hyperbole or Hyper -bowl as Julia would say.
The point is I am not against electrification in the instances that it is an advance on the old ways eg petrol mowers and corded or air tools but EVs not yet if ever..
Regards PhilipA
PS love my 2 Lifepo4 batteries to run my car fridge and caravan electrics and my solar panels to charge when no grid.

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Originally Posted by prelude

Finally, I may have said it before but an EV is not just a car with batteries. I don't find them appealing and they do not drive to my liking but then again I am a car(ICE) enthousiast. Let James May explain it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQY-VeA87cM (around 3 minutes though the entire thing is interesting)
Then again, most people are not really car enthousiasts and will like em just fine.

-P

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FFS. I have a Defender, and a lotus. Can't I just have one car that's just a car for driving around in? Do I need to be "enthusiastic" about my car all the time?

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

More than a few might have thought that about horses?[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle] Fully agree "actually reasonable" is the only reason to have anything.

Interesting watching trends. "The impacts of the government’s incoming efficiency regulations could reach the secondary car market, as buyers seek out used cars instead. The secondary effects of the New Vehicle Efficiency Standard (NVES) – the forthcoming laws designed to improve the fuel economy and reduce tailpipe emissions of new cars – are expected to be felt in the used-car market in the coming years.

Industry experts claim the NVES will quash the new-car market by as much as 19 per cent, significantly increasing demand – and potentially prices – for used cars as buyers look to side-step the new regulations.
In a presentation at the Australian Automotive Dealers Association’s (AADA) annual conference, industry analysts from company BDO Automotive said the NVES will heavily impact the profitability of dealerships – with the secondary car market one of the only beneficiaries.
However, the news is unlikely to be good for consumers, who are already facing record-high cost-of-living expenses – with transport costs accounting for 17 per cent of household budgets, according to the Australian Automobile Association (AAA).
Industry analysts told a packed conference of dealership representatives from across the country the NVES was expected to lead to an initial spike in used-car sales with supply likely to become a challenge “as trade-in opportunities decline”.

The news comes after the AADA published figures showing used-car sales had already increased by 16 per cent in the first half of 2024.
With the NVES set to come into effect on 1 January 2024, the new-car industry is bracing for two years of turmoil before the market settles.
The post Car industry bracing for spike in used-car demand following emissions laws appeared first on Drive."

Personally, I'll try to never use a petrol lawn mower again. The electric one is quiet. doesn't make me stink of exhaust fumes and starts every time with no swearing[biggrin]

Each to their own I say

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The car industry has waaay bigger problems than NVES.

The manufacturers who sell cars in Australia have ignored "normal" cars and have been full on milking the 4x4/SUV/UTE class of car. That's where the mooolah is. And now that's under threat.

I've said before and I'll say again. Despite having no car industry I can see a juncture in the near future when our car importers will be begging for protection from the chinese.

I'm not a fan of PHEV. I personally think they are the worst of both worlds. All the servicing and reliability issues of ICE combined with the battery issues of EV's because the small battery gets snotted every run if used correctly. And if people just fill them up with fuel they don't get the environmental because they are heavier than a normal ICE vehicle. Plus poor packaging because you've got to fit two drivetrains in there. I concede that there are use cases for them where they make sense, but not nearly as many as we think.

None the less. Pray for Toyota and Ford. If it's priced as aggressively as everything else BYD has done it will be on.

https://youtu.be/8NXSd2BHXEA'si=1MmrDPOhhUtFQGuZ

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Interesting. I live only a few K's from the Brisbane CBD. For the life of me I can't get this to load as a photo. You should be able click on the link below.

This photo is a few houses from me up the street. The cars from right to left. Nissan Tida Daughter. Toyota Hilux son. Mazda BT50 ute thing (dad). Toyota Hilux son (still on Ls). Mitsubishi Prado Wife. No I've never seen any evidence that any of them have been off road. No they only own a box trailer which is also stored on street.

House next to me. Raptor (dad). Mum has a jeep thingy.

House across the road. Dad and two boys, Three 4x4.

And so it goes. All up and down my street and around the suburb. It's easy to see because most houses are too low to fit a full 4x4 in. I'm sorry.. you can't convince me that EVERYONE needs a 4x4/SUV.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/d8GBxK12WiY8A2BU6
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

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Oh I get it, yes everyone also has lots of ****ty old car on club permits and car wrecks around the yard. They drove past my house once, so obviously this is what everyone has. Why does he need all those old cars ... someone should make him get rid of them all and get an electric car "because its good for the environment". So you found one house somewhere where a bunch of 4wd enthusiests live........ Let me guess, builders? Is there tradie trailers in the yard too. Are the sons apprentices somewhere in the building trade?

I agree, they are terrible people, lets force them to get rid of those evil twin cab utes an buy an electric car.