EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Looks like Vic is the first to jump. Proposing an annual levy on EV’s - around $200 a year by the sounds of it.

I’m sure they won’t be the last.

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We knew that was coming,they dont want to miss out on anything.


"Victoria's tax, announced in last week's state budget, proposes to charge 2.5 cents per kilometre driven by electric and other low-emissions vehicles and 2 cents per km for plug-in hybrid electric cars. That means a pure electric vehicle traveling an average of 15,000km a year will pay $375 a year."

No doubt it will creep up.

Its still quite a lot less than fuel excise for similar K's,for ICE LV's.

One of the Youtube channels I have subscribed to is Harry's Garage - tests a lot of tasty vehicles but from time to time has some almost philosophical discussions on other issues related to classical cars.

This is his latest video where he discussed possible issues related to the banning of Internal Combustion Engines in new vehicles in the UK from 2030 and I think in the EU from 2025. Also covers points related to the real environmental cost of EV vehicles, the environmental cost of the continued use of classic old vehicles after that date and impact of exemptions. Even though you buy green energy, is it really green and how the car makers will deal with the rest of the world where the EU rules do not apply.

Will the 2030 ban & the dash to electric cars spell the end for classics in UK? - YouTube

An earlier video related to EVs 2020 new car market is changing & moving to electric cars, I explain why. - YouTube

The Ups and Downs of running and EV Jaguar i-Pace real-world review. The ups & downs of running an electric car.. - YouTube

Why would you buy a RRS PHEV with such a short range Range Rover P400e PHEV review. Are hybrid cars better than pure electric in the real world? - YouTube

I think this fact may show why EV will kill ICE for most cars soon

"Having fallen 82 per cent over the past eight years, the average cost of a lithium-ion battery is expected to decline further to US$100 per kWh by 2023 and to as low as US$73 by 2030, according to IHS Markit. The average price in two years, at US$100 per kWh, will be a critical milestone in making unsubsidized electric vehicles cost-competitive with oil guzzlers, Castilloux said"

Given I paid about 1k per kWh for two 10kWh flow batteries that cost reduction looks rather significant [biggrin] ( Full Building UPS set up at work for work) Range wise this shows some interesting changes

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default...72x_134740.jpg

Recharge times are a issue at many locations in Australia still.

The Cost reductions in Battery costs in this graph really ram it home
https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default...72x_134740.jpg

While everyone bangs on about EV range, in reality it is less important than charging time. A ICE runs low on fuel and you pull into a garage and 5 minutes later you are off fully "charged". A EV runs low on juice and you pull into a charge point (if there is not a queue) and wait and wait and wait and wait - Tesla have the best charging system but even then you have to wait a long time - also what if you live in an inner city house that only has on street parking - where to you charge when home.

No - it is time to look at battery technology and charging technology so that an EV can receive a full charge in a few minutes or develop systems that can swap out discharged batteries for charge ones in a few minutes at a EV service station.

Yes EVs are good for some - would be OK where I live to commute around town but not good if I want to drive interstate - range not the issue, but charging times, charging points are.

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

I think this fact may show why EV will kill ICE for most cars soon

"Having fallen 82 per cent over the past eight years, the average cost of a lithium-ion battery is expected to decline further to US$100 per kWh by 2023 and to as low as US$73 by 2030, according to IHS Markit. The average price in two years, at US$100 per kWh, will be a critical milestone in making unsubsidized electric vehicles cost-competitive with oil guzzlers, Castilloux said"

Given I paid about 1k per kWh for two 10kWh flow batteries that cost reduction looks rather significant [biggrin] ( Full Building UPS set up at work for work) Range wise this shows some interesting changes

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default...72x_134740.jpg

Recharge times are a issue at many locations in Australia still.

The Cost reductions in Battery costs in this graph really ram it home
https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default...72x_134740.jpg

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Looking at the graph,it is MAX RANGE.

So in real driving conditions,AC on,loaded,etc,and leaving some range to get to a charging station, probably around half to 2/3 what the MAX Range is, no doubt?

As 101RRS says,the real issue is charging times, finding a charging station, and one that hasn't got a que of vehicles waiting to charge.

People haven't got time to sit around for hours waiting to charge a vehicle.

Sure some may be able to charge one overnight, at home, if they have the relevant solar set up and batteries, and dont do high mileage during the day.

Seems FORD has an EV van, range is listed at 200KM.Once loaded, driven as van drivers do, i bet the range is nowhere near 200KM,totally useless for a commercial vehicle no doubt.

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Originally Posted by scarry

Looking at the graph,it is MAX RANGE.

So in real driving conditions,AC on,loaded,etc,and leaving some range to get to a charging station, probably around half to 2/3 what the MAX Range is, no doubt?

As 101RRS says,the real issue is charging times, finding a charging station, and one that hasn't got a que of vehicles waiting to charge.

People haven't got time to sit around for hours waiting to charge a vehicle.

Sure some may be able to charge one overnight, at home, if they have the relevant solar set up and batteries, and dont do high mileage during the day.

Seems FORD has an EV van, range is listed at 200KM.Once loaded, driven as van drivers do, i bet the range is nowhere near 200KM,totally useless for a commercial vehicle no doubt.

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Fully agree so won't take your "bet" :) . Add a heavy trailer, load up the roof rack or add the boat to my D3 and range is significantly shorter- Ditto of any energy option we know of.

The battery tech energy density/cost reductions was why I was looking. Mainly interested in Solid state as that will do four things. No fire risk, Massively increase charge rates, decrees batteries size by significantly increasing energy density and reduce weights due to the prior point. Not suggesting currently used tech is perfect just like my two 10kWh flow batteries. Mine are great when the grid goes off for me which happily makes me forget or not at all concerned with the price I paid for them years ago. Current state of play with batteries is changing rapidly. Add Some of the fuel Cell which when available at a reasonable price /size/running cost/efficiency may make the entire yarn change even faster than it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

I think this fact may show why EV will kill ICE for most cars soon

"Having fallen 82 per cent over the past eight years, the average cost of a lithium-ion battery is expected to decline further to US$100 per kWh by 2023 and to as low as US$73 by 2030, according to IHS Markit. The average price in two years, at US$100 per kWh, will be a critical milestone in making unsubsidized electric vehicles cost-competitive with oil guzzlers, Castilloux said"

Given I paid about 1k per kWh for two 10kWh flow batteries that cost reduction looks rather significant [biggrin] ( Full Building UPS set up at work for work) Range wise this shows some interesting changes

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default...72x_134740.jpg

Recharge times are a issue at many locations in Australia still.

The Cost reductions in Battery costs in this graph really ram it home
https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default...72x_134740.jpg

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If the graph is right and battery packs have come down so much in price, then why are they still so bloody expensive? The Nissan leaf should be half the price it is now based on what it cost a few years back and what the graph shows prices at, so when are they going to become affordable enough for joe public? After the vehicles range, that's my next biggest concern. All this hype about how they will take over from ICE but they won't when they cost twice as much - I haven't seen the price of any EV come down, but happy to be proven wrong. The only EV's I've looked at are so far out of my price range it isn't funny and I'm prepared to pay around $65K next year for a vehicle, so it's not like I'm cheaping out. If there's anything in my price range that can tow 2000Kg 300Kg between charges and without a trailer get around 500KM (not on paper but in the real world) it might almost do me. Think it will be many years before an EV comes close to what I can afford with those specs. :(

Right with you there.

Unfortunately we are only getting the European EVs plus Tesla .

Not many people in Europe would even consider getting in their vehicle for a same day 5-800km turnaround trip like many of us here do.

It will not even be considered by manufacturers in their fwd planning.

The vehicle we want can be built but not by the Europeans......look how much Land Rover REALLY care about Australian market.

I think Ford/Chev should take a deep breath and dive in here.....between us and them there really is a market.....next couple of years is going to see an onset of American iron into Australia , because they basically have what we want.

We are going to be cheering for them in Supercars , we'll be buying them during the week.

They have an opportunity here to build the Australian electric vehicle.

First in best dressed.

Problem then becomes Road mass....
These EVs are so damn heavy the roads will be subject to more wear.

This isn’t going to be as simple as it appears at face value.

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

Right with you there.

Unfortunately we are only getting the European EVs plus Tesla .

Not many people in Europe would even consider getting in their vehicle for a same day 5-800km turnaround trip like many of us here do.

It will not even be considered by manufacturers in their fwd planning.

The vehicle we want can be built but not by the Europeans......look how much Land Rover REALLY care about Australian market.

I think Ford/Chev should take a deep breath and dive in here.....between us and them there really is a market.....next couple of years is going to see an onset of American iron into Australia , because they basically have what we want.

We are going to be cheering for them in Supercars , we'll be buying them during the week.

They have an opportunity here to build the Australian electric vehicle.

First in best dressed.

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I think you’re being optimistic regarding the supercars - I see they’ve cut next years series back to 12 events - Sandown and Phillip Island gone from the list - 2 of the best IMO. Leaving the F1 (and that isn’t certain they’ll be running a support program yet) and Winton here in Vic. So not only can I not watch them on telly any more but I can’t go see them much either - great way to maintain a fan base...