Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

My two over ten year old 10kWh Flow batteries cost me about 10k each. 6kWh Solar system and just under 20kWh of battery is going on my shed next week or so for under $5000 AUD honest!

That does my head in! NB There is a few K in the gov cash for battery and solar in that price!

The prices are crashing and capacity is increasing

Not suggesting EVs are perfect or refitting a battery is simple. Refitting a submarine battery was complex for a cool EV try Italy's U212 NFS program.

While I wait for my boat towing 4wd long range Fast Charging ev beast I was looking at DEEPAL E07: All-New, All-Electric MULTITRUCK | DEEPAL Australia

600km plus claimed may be 500ish.
800V electrical architecture

EV drive time to drop of a worker. I may look for a whale

supply and demand ... if you think batteries for EV's are going to get cheaper, you are living in a dream world The harder the main ingrediants for batteries get to source, and the more we must have EV's mandated over the world, the more expensive they will become.

Unless somehting like the sodium battery becomes a "thing" that doesn't require all the rare/expensive elements

supply and demand will always trump everything else. If lots of people want something that there isn't enough of, it will become more expensive.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

You just being ridiculous, just buy a different car if you want reliablity. How do you get reliability over the long term buying *any* EV.... the answer is you don't. The youngest car in this house hold is 14 years old... The oldest 75 years old. Guess how much drama I have worrying about $20,000+ battery replacements every 8'ish years (yes, I know ... THEY WILL LAST 25 YEARS ... sure .... ) .... No, hang on .... I've was just told in today in this thread they will even last 40% longer than that This is just so hilarious.

I have no expectation that my ev will last 25 years. If I'd bought a ICE equivalent (you pick) I would have no expectation that it would last 25 years either. You're just chasing something that no longer exists. If I buy any new LR now.. will it even make 15 years? I wouldn't be hopeful. But again.. it will probably be just like ICE. Some EV's will be finished at 10 years. Some will probably be surviving at 20. Which one will be which? Just a guess.

In the last 25 years I've bought 5 ICE vehicles.

2002 Mini. Written off in 2009 due to engine failure.
2003 Ford fiesta. Don't know when it died but it's dead.
2005 Defender Still going strong!
2007 Audi A3 Died 2023.
2016 Vw Golf. unknown. ... surely it's alive! I want to believe.

So 2/5 are even still alive. If we take the Defender out as it's an outlier, why should I reasonably expect my EV to last for 25 years? Like Why? The longest lived of the normal cars was the Audi at 16 years.

Honestly.. I really don't know how you're coming to these crazy conclusions about EV longevity. You can't give me any evidence about your opinion on battery durability. Just crazy wild punts. But neither can I. Should we wait until the current tech is 25 years old before we say "hell that's durable enough". By which time the world will have moved on many times over.

The first proper EV's arrived in Aus in 2014 and are at the moment doing fine. Thanks for asking. And as I've said over and over - we have every expectation that ones sold now will be at least that durable. That seems to me that they are looking to be on target to be at least as durable as the ICE cars I seem to pick. I remain confident that the cause of death of my EV is unlikely to be it's battery.

Tell me one car you could buy now that you are confident will last 25+ years


Tell me what equivalent car I should have bought instead which will last 25+ years and put us all out of your misery!

PS Why are you even in this thread if you think that EV's are that useless?

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Tell me one car you could buy now that you are confident will last 25+ years

land cruiser
porsche

Originally Posted by Eevo

land cruiser
porsche

I'd be suprised if a chinese mg and byd ICE vehicles aren't still on the roads. like I said, I still see the cheap ****boxes from 30years ago on the roads.

This really is the dumbest suggestion that ice vehicles won't last either ..... They will last for as long as someone is willing to maintain and upkeep them. the old poogoe here has now passed down to the youngest daughter. It still sips about 7L/100km and never fails to start and drive as required. i'm guessing it will be well past 300,000kms at 25 years and still happily motoring along if we need it.

I'm hoping I get to come back to this thread in 25years time and admit I was wrong ..... and the lithium batteries have lasted 25 years when fitted to electric cars (even though they haven't anywhere else ... ever .... and I've owned endless lithium battery devices just like everyone else .... 5 -> 8 years and there done).

Hmm. To me there is a big difference to writing off an ICE car due to engine failure and writing off an EV due to a minor accident which damages the battery or battery failure.

There of course is the issue of what car you choose to buy. A RRS 3l is a very risky proposition and so is a Mini as they have a terrible reputation for engine failure.

But a well-maintained Honda, Toyota or Nissan has a reputation of lasting hundreds of thousands of Kilometers.

It remains to be seen which Chinese ICE car brands will survive and the long term reliability of them.

It is the potential cost of battery replacement that will see a 10 year old EV have no resale value as it will almost certainly be more than the car is worth. In the USA and UK early Nissan Leafs have almost no value even though there is now an after market for batteries as they are still very expensive.
Regards PhilipA

Double chevron I hate to burst your battery life thoughts as I and quite a few others that installed lithium iron batteries in our motorhomes when they first became available and are now approaching fifteen years service with no sign of performance losses.
In some cases capacity tests are better than new as we suspect the manufacturer was conservative in their ratings.
They came with no BMS, cooling (or heating) systems and most installs are monitored at a cell level by the user and yet they are still happily performing as designed and that basic design is still available and is often used in electrification of ICE vehicles.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

supply and demand ... if you think batteries for EV's are going to get cheaper, you are living in a dream world The harder the main ingrediants for batteries get to source, and the more we must have EV's mandated over the world, the more expensive they will become.

Unless somehting like the sodium battery becomes a "thing" that doesn't require all the rare/expensive elements

supply and demand will always trump everything else. If lots of people want something that there isn't enough of, it will become more expensive.

I may differ on that point My questions 'cost of a car in inflation adjusted $USD from 1925 to 2025"

cost of a car in inflation adjusted $USD from 1925 to 2025

Link is to the data. My screen shot went binary
A car that cost $15,000 in 1935 would cost about $128,000 in 2025 if adjusted purely for car-specific inflation Its a AVG car price not a Range Rover price