Thread: Grid can go 75% renewable

Originally Posted by Tombie

Up to 10kwh. Not real useful

Notice it’s still
A) a trial
grid connected

And, providers have been saying there will be big savings coming for over 5 years. Guess what, not happened

Ah, it is not all pie in the sky. My mate has just sold his wheatbelt farm where these systems are being used. The consumption cost to the consumer is the same per unit as the grid supply. ALL the farms in the area now have their own stand alone supply. Western Power install it and maintain it, including fuel for the backup generator. In fact, the customer is not permitted to touch it.

Where he has retired to on a 100 acre block he his going to install a similar system at a much lower cost than Western Power are quoting. The ironic part being that there is a bloody great 66Kv HT powerline passing through his block! There is also single phase powerlines right outside his gate.



Stand-Alone Power System Round 1 | Energy Solutions – Western Power

untitled (westernpower.com.au)

Off-Grid Power Systems | Solar Battery Storage Systems - Western Power

Stand-alone Power System | 3 Year Results | Ravensthorpe | Great Southern | Western Power

This is a sensible solution to the far flung grid problem as the main motivation is to save money on maintenance of the far flung grid.
A couple of questions come to my mind.

1 Why does it take days to fix an outage? Could it be that Western Power has reduced maintenance staff to reduce costs?
2 Who refills the generators after an outage?
3 Is this because of under investment over many years?

Nothing is new. The NSW government did this in White Cliffs about 30 or 40 years ago with a concentrated solar array , backed by batteries.
In contrast the Qld Government ran modern high voltage lines waaaay out even along the Adavale stock route.
I spoke to a resident of White Cliffs about 15 years ago who said" the best day of our lives was when they connected us to the grid."
The array is still there looking forlorn as a monument to failure.
Let us hope that technology has progressed to the point that this time it works!

Regards PhilipA

Originally Posted by PhilipA

This is a sensible solution to the far flung grid problem as the main motivation is to save money on maintenance of the far flung grid.
A couple of questions come to my mind.

1 Why does it take days to fix an outage? Could it be that Western Power has reduced maintenance staff to reduce costs?
2 Who refills the generators after an outage?
3 Is this because of under investment over many years?

Nothing is new. The NSW government did this in White Cliffs about 30 or 40 years ago with a concentrated solar array , backed by batteries.
In contrast the Qld Government ran modern high voltage lines waaaay out even along the Adavale stock route.
I spoke to a resident of White Cliffs about 15 years ago who said" the best day of our lives was when they connected us to the grid."
The array is still there looking forlorn as a monument to failure.
Let us hope that technology has progressed to the point that this time it works!

Regards PhilipA

There is a constant push to reduce the price of power......doing more with less doesn’t always work and eventually something has to give.

Yep, decentralising the grid makes it less vulnerable to being disrupted by the failure of a single power source, as happened at Callide this week.

Interesting that Callide was replaced by a combination of several sources: wind was blowing, pumped hydro at Wivenhoe dam, solar and a backup gas station.

Qld government says it is going to accelerate a second pumped hydro station plus it is going ahead with five big batteries which are already in trials. Batteries provide instant power on demand. Callide will also be repaired.

Community batteries will spread the cost across consumers and so be much more affordable than installing batteries at individual properties.

The story is on the ABC News website today, but I'm not posting the link because I'm sick of being accused of being political merely for linking to information some people don't like.

Decentralising the grid with multiple power sources is good sense, I think.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Ausgrid predicts consumers will save up to $250 a year and is running community battery trials right now.

Community Battery Trial Participant FAQs - Ausgrid

They are in dreamland.

The grid has always (at least for a long time) been decentralised.

It’s only as CFPS closed that it centralised!

That’s what interconnectors do!

Spreading an additional cost amongst the population doesn’t make it cheaper - it still increases individual cost.

Like Water, everyone with a mains running near their property pays - even if they don’t use it.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Yep, decentralising the grid makes it less vulnerable to being disrupted by the failure of a single power source, as happened at Callide this week.

Interesting that Callide was replaced by a combination of several sources: wind was blowing, pumped hydro at Wivenhoe dam, solar and a backup gas station.

Qld government says it is going to accelerate a second pumped hydro station plus it is going ahead with five big batteries which are already in trials. Batteries provide instant power on demand. Callide will also be repaired.

Community batteries will spread the cost across consumers and so be much more affordable than installing batteries at individual properties.

The story is on the ABC News website today, but I'm not posting the link because I'm sick of being accused of being political merely for linking to information some people don't like.

Decentralising the grid with multiple power sources is good sense, I think.

You haven’t mentioned anywhere who’s paying for this? While I agree with the idea and ideals trying to be moved forward there’s just no way anyone can afford it - the huge fall in battery tech the media seem to report on doesn’t stick up when you price anything - either in small or large scale. Solar panels being the exception which are dirt cheap now but batteries haven’t moved at all in price - one of my best customers does large solar and battery installations (think 20MW and up) and they’ve not seen a fall in battery prices like is being reported and they buy them 20 container loads at a time - if they can’t get cheaper batteries then no one can.

Originally Posted by Homestar

You haven’t mentioned anywhere who’s paying for this? While I agree with the idea and ideals trying to be moved forward there’s just no way anyone can afford it - the huge fall in battery tech the media seem to report on doesn’t stick up when you price anything - either in small or large scale. Solar panels being the exception which are dirt cheap now but batteries haven’t moved at all in price - one of my best customers does large solar and battery installations (think 20MW and up) and they’ve not seen a fall in battery prices like is being reported and they buy them 20 container loads at a time - if they can’t get cheaper batteries then no one can.

Solar prices have at retail gone down or for the same prices we get significantly more. At the big end of the scale "Wind and solar power are the cheapest form of new electricity in most of the world today.That’s the analysis of BloombergNEF"

Storage is still a barrier as you point out. Storage Scale and cost is still now where near what is needed. Loads of wannabee or look at me and give me millions are jumping up and down on that topic of course. Happy to have my money where my mouth is on the lightest element being a likely option. hundreds of billions of $$$ being invested in that sector world wide.

Navy might be now in the mix for German Type 214 submarines with AIP. AIP is hydrogen fuel cells which provides power and by product of oxygen and water. Both by products are needed while submerged making that a win win for a silent and effective sub. Add no switch gear which is/was a major noise source from otherwise very quiet sub is a big plus as well. I had wondered if the French subs might arrive in 2030 with hydrogen given its massive advantages for subs.
It just might be a 'Put up or shut up' to the the French Australia considers German submarine option as tensions with French company grow - ABC News



Like the Solid state batteries, pumped hydro, Zinc Bromide, Molten salt ........... scale and proof is needed. I personally think the current lithium battery tech is a expensive waste/distraction and only a small scale option even at its biggest sites.