Thread: World's biggest battery to be built at KURRI KURRI.

Originally Posted by Homestar

Yes, I've always wondered why Lithium is chosen for ground based systems with plenty of room and no weight limits when much cheaper options are available. Save the lithium batteries for where there weight savings are a huge part of the equation. I can't understand why people what the Telsa Powerwalls either for the same reason - while I'm sure there are a few places that have such limited room they would make sense, most houses would have ample room for a different and much cheaper tech.

I think that it may have a lot to do with its discharge voltage curve. It pretty much holds a stable voltage right down to about 10% discharge, a bit like the old nickel iron batteries.

Originally Posted by Old Farang

I think that it may have a lot to do with its discharge voltage curve. It pretty much holds a stable voltage right down to about 10% discharge, a bit like the old nickel iron batteries.

I have 4 120 A lithium batteries, two in the van, and one each in two battery boxes.The voltage under load starts at 14V/ 100%, down to 10.5V /10%.Each battery has a " safe " mode, it will enter " safe" mode at 9V or less, or if it is over discharged. Once in "safe " mode it appears to be in open circuit. No voltage will be detected on the battery terminals and there will be no current output. To bring the battery out of " safe mode ",I connect jumper leads from another battery [ lithium, AGM, gel or Lead acid ,only a temporaty connection] once the battery has reached 10.8 V the BMS will reset, allowing current to flow, and be detected by the charger. I've had these batteries for four years 1, three 1 and two 2. An interesting pod cast discusses whether batteries can rule the Grid. These fellows know what they are talking about.

Energy Insiders Podcast: Can batteries rule the grid? | RenewEconomy

No idea. And in my previous post I was actually thinking of Ni-Cad:

Li-ion Discharge Voltage Curve Typical.jpg

All the points in replies re lithium from my last post I see as moot points considering how they are used compared to the cost.

Instantaneous current - not required in this application - even if you stuck the kettle, toaster and dryer on at the same time, older battery tech would handle it easily and so would the inverter.

Weight to install - each battery is not that heavy, even lead acid - I used to install huge UPS’s - (100’s of KVA) - the racks get loaded one battery at a time so no crane needed and one guy can do it, not 2 so cross that off as being a benefit, it sounds like a hinderance to me.

Current and voltage curve and usable storage - inverters can handle the current and voltage curves of older tech batteries no dramas, and you can put twice the amount in and get a longer life from them and still be cheaper than the lithium option.

I don’t hate lithium - I love the tech and run a couple in my vans - but there’s a place for them and I just think some people get caught up in the hype and nothing else is all.

So, for my my money I wouldn’t go lithium for a home installation - I’ve been doing the sums recently and I can get a bigger, better, longer lasting system for my money.

Just my 2 cents.

yes , snowy hydro2 is completely political. the gas fired stations are completely political too.

I'm not into coal but I cannot see the point in the expenditure necessary for new gas fired power stations to be built (which are still , ecologically , very dirty) while we still have existing coal fired stations with their fuel next door.

The coal fired stations can be cleaned up to be just as "clean" as gas fired stations at a quarter of the cost.

current politics are trying to dictate the future of power generation in Australia instead of non political sensible economics.

Originally Posted by Homestar

So, for my my money I wouldn’t go lithium for a home installation - I’ve been doing the sums recently and I can get a bigger, better, longer lasting system for my money.

Just my 2 cents.

What would you go for?

Originally Posted by windsock

What would you go for?

I’d go sodium ion if I was in the market (will be another year or two before I am I think) - they last for ages have a discharge depth almost that of lithium and are heaps safer - I’ve had a small drone battery explode and catch fire on me - I wouldn’t want to be around for a larger scale version of that - while uncommon, big lithium batteries do go up in flames and there’s nothing you can do to stop them once they get going. Added to that as far as I can tell they are cheaper too, and given the materials used are very common they won’t be subject to wildly fluctuating prices like lithium is. They are not as widely used so there isn’t the production scale at the moment to bring the cost down but they are gaining traction and the actual material cost for them is significantly cheaper - they are sort of sitting where lithium was 5 years ago - on the edge of mass production.

Disadvantages - they are about twice the size and many times the weight of an equivalent lithium battery for the same output, so only a disadvantage if you live somewhere that has absolutely no room but for the vast majority it is we’d have a spot outside down the back of the house we could stick a large fridge sized object or two if you’re going big.

That’s my point - save the lithium for where it’s needed - vehicles, etc where weight and space matter. These big battery banks they are building could easily be done with current sodium tech for less money per KWH - and it’s not like they are short of room where they are building these things.

I’m not anti lithium or think any less of anyone that installs that at their house, I’m just pointing out there is an alternative that’s not lead acid. I think they’ve had their day for the most part and with so few charge/discharge cycles compared to lithium and sodium they aren’t suitable for home use unless you’re getting them for basically nothing.

Snowy hydro was never a Basket Case. The introduction of the" national market" was the undoing of Common sense & efficient generation on the Eastern States. The National Market was introduced to reduce Electricity prices through competion. That was back in 1997. 24 years later & see what we have now. The so called National Market has been a total failure. It only makes money for the stakeholders - now mostly non Australian. At the time of the start of the National Market, Australia was in the top few percentage for the cheapest Power in the OECD countries. Not any more! It's the other way around. Snowy 2.0 is just Political. This was knocked back twice 50 odd years ago.
Ok that was my little rave.

Phil