Thread: Would Australia have enough Electricity (now) if everyone switched to EV ?

Originally Posted by Tombie

We have the rudimentary tech.
We don’t have the resources for a large take up.
Nor do we have the infrastructure.

And if Europe goes full steam (spark?) ahead - good luck getting a vehicle in AU as all the production of batteries will go to EU

Don't forget California. Over there EVs are a sexy form of virtue signalling. Some might say the same applies here...

But let's not forget, the most abundant element on earth, and probably the universe, is hydrogen. It's dumb not to explore its use. I believe there to be a project on the Hazlewood site to generate electrickery. But fuel cell cars already exist and work well. Heck, Dean Robinson is even exploring fitting them to new OKAs! To me, EVs are a cul de sac. Through their cycle they do far more damage to the environment than they prevent. Sure, that may not always be the case, but it's the case now, and probably will be for decades.

If and when there is a bigger uptake in EVs I just keep thinking that they are going to make off peak power and the Snowy River 2.0 pumped hydro obsolete.

Surely when everyone is charging there EVs overnight off peak will become peak.

The problem with hydrogen is quite simply - it is hydrogen. From the very basic characteristics of the element it is difficult and expensive to store and to transport, as well as being dangerous. Because it is a gas, it must be stored either at very high pressure or as a chemical compound. In the former case, the container is heavy and expensive, and inevitably leaky, as hydrogen at pressure will permeate through anything, creating a fire and explosion hazard. If stored as a compound there is an immediate loss in efficiency .

But the major problem with hydrogen is overall energy efficiency. Conversion of electricity to hydrogen is at best about 70% efficient, and conversion of hydrogen ->electricity using a fuel cell about the same. This gives an overall energy efficiency for a hydrogen vehicle of about 50% at best, compared with charge/discharge efficiency of an EV battery of about 90+%. In both cases ignoring motor losses (same for both) and distribution losses.

But while electricity losses in grids are well known and understood (5% average?), and many EVs will be charged in practice from local generation on the owner's roof, hydrogen distribution by pipeline or tanker and storage will incur substantial losses simply because hydrogen leaks through anything. (Making hydrogen locally using electricity is even worse on the grid than EVs because of the efficiency losses)

Despite this I see hydrogen being used for some heavy vehicles and also for a lot of machinery, simply because for very large energy storage requirements, its energy/mass ratio is a lot better than batteries despite the need for heavy containers (Which is less of a problem as the amount stored increases). But not for passenger cars and other light vehicles.

Was just sent this by a friend - quite interesting even though it’s from 6 months ago - https://www.newsmax.com/us/californi...28/id/1026765/

Infrastructure is way behind, even with Biden promising Billions for new chargers - there’s no power for them at the moment when demand is high. Will be interesting to see if this is duplicated this year for their upcoming Summer and if it’s got worse or better.

IMG_9642.jpg

Originally Posted by FisherX

If and when there is a bigger uptake in EVs I just keep thinking that they are going to make off peak power and the Snowy River 2.0 pumped hydro obsolete.

Surely when everyone is charging there EVs overnight off peak will become peak.

Clearly you didn't watch the video.

Originally Posted by Homestar

Was just sent this by a friend - quite interesting even though it’s from 6 months ago - https://www.newsmax.com/us/californi...28/id/1026765/

Infrastructure is way behind, even with Biden promising Billions for new chargers - there’s no power for them at the moment when demand is high. Will be interesting to see if this is duplicated this year for their upcoming Summer and if it’s got worse or better.

IMG_9642.jpg

If you fact check it you will find its Fake news, lots of that going around

Originally Posted by goingbush

If you fact check it you will find its Fake news, lots of that going around

Thanks - happy to be proven wrong.

Originally Posted by goingbush

If you fact check it you will find its Fake news, lots of that going around

Ok, only fact check I can find is from USA today - California didn't require electric car owners to stop charging - which pretty much says what the other article I linked did - that residents were asked to reduce their power consumption due to high load demand - that fact isn't in dispute. This article says that facebook had an article that said they were banned from charging them which was the fake news - which the article I linked didn't - so it is true that the power demand was so high that people were asked to look at their use and the article I linked ISN'T fake news - did you read the article at all - it says quite a few times that residents were asked to reduce loads - not that it banned EV charging - which is the point I was making before - that there isn't enough power if everyone switched to EV's.